perlick29 wrote:Does anyone know what outfielder(s) you could get for derrek lee? I'm looking to move him, not in the VKC, so feel free to answer VKC'ers.
Well, he was on a similar value as say, Hideki Matsui and Vernon Wells, prior to his hot start, so I'd gun for the level of OFs higher than that: say Miguel Cabrera, Gary Sheffield...it may be hard to achieve, but that's who I'd try to get.
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Mercer Boy wrote:I'm sorry, but I would not trade someone to get Graves no matter if he had 50 saves already. His ERA and WHIP kill your team. You have to have some pretty dominant starters to be able to get away with having him, or you'll lose 2 cats each week.
Right now he's getting a 9 ERA and/or 2-3 WHIP each time out...sure it's good for the saves, but why try to improve one stat when you kill two?
i guess i need a definition of whip killer.. 4 out of the last 5 years dgraves has had a whip of 1.35, 1.32, 1.27, 1.26 and his era in 3 or those yrs was 3.96, 3.21, 2.57...
SouthBronxBombers wrote:Unless he starts blowing saves, he won't be losing his job, no matter how well Wagner is pitching. Baseball managers do not care about the numbers we care about, they care about the final result. And if he is ending games with the Reds on top, there is no reason for them to make the change. And as has been stated, anybody that plays the game of fantasy baseball will know the exact same things that you do about Graves. It's hard to sell other players on a one category stat, unless they can absorb all of the other problems with him. Most people you play with are not idiots. They will know that the points they gain in saves, if any, will be lost from the WHIP and ERA. They're certainly not going to give anything great for that.
exactly what i was trying to say. i'm not saying you can't "sell" him, but he certainly isn't a "sell high" candidate, regardless of how bad the closer market is right now. if just the fact that there's a lot of injured closers makes graves a sell high candidate, then that must mean every single closer still healthy must be a sell high candidate as well.
Laean wrote:exactly what i was trying to say. i'm not saying you can't "sell" him, but he certainly isn't a "sell high" candidate, regardless of how bad the closer market is right now. if just the fact that there's a lot of injured closers makes graves a sell high candidate, then that must mean every single closer still healthy must be a sell high candidate as well.
"Selling high" is trading a player when they are at peak value. Graves is currently at his peak value. He cannot be worth more than he's worth right now. He's healthy. He's got a job. He's getting saves. As closers come back from the DL, his value goes down. As committees shake themselves down, someone emerges from the group, and nails down the closer spot, his value goes down. If he continues to struggle, he could lose the job (not likely, but possible) and his value goes down.
Another way of looking at it........What would have to happen for Graves's value to go up? Realistically speaking. Not some far fetched scheme of 5 more closers biting the dust with injuries or anything.
Graves is worth as much right now as he will be all season. If someone wants to move him, now is the time to do it. That's what Thehat was trying to get accross. He's not saying you'll land some big stud or anything. He's just giving a heads up that Graves cannot possibly be worth more in the future than he's currently worth now, so now's a good time to move him if you want to.
Not sure why this caused such a debate. It's normal fantasy strategy. Like buying low. If you want Eric Chavez, now's the time. His value cannot possibly get any lower (provided he stays healthy) than it currently is. On the flipside, Graves's value cannot get any higher. Normal fantasy strategy.
Yes doctor, I am sick. Sick of those who are spineless. Sick of those who feel self-entitled. Sick of those who are hypocrites. Yes doctor, an army is forming. Yes doctor, there will be a war. Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
Obviously, this applies only to those who have other closers on their current roster. But if you do, his marketability is NEVER going to be higher than it is right now!
First of all, Graves has been extremely fortunate to date. He's got a 100% save conversion rate, but all of his peripheral numbers are lousy. He has an established tendency to fade, and that could be accelerated in that he's more of a health risk than he used to be. Plus, there's little question, at least IMO, that Ryan Wagner is the closer in waiting for Cincy and he's been nothing short of sensational this season.
The kicker is injury/ineffectiveness epidemic that is afflicting so many closers right now. Owners in virtually every league of reasonable size are frantically searching for saves.
I'm convinced that offering Graves up right now will get you more in return than at any other time, past or present. Now if only I actually owned him in any of my four leagues...
thats funny, I was saying the exact same thing about this guy last year, at about this time
Yeah Graves is not a closer you "want" to own all season. Sell Hi.