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Postby Octavian » Fri Apr 22, 2005 10:17 pm

Okay, so it was touted by the ESPN morons as the best in the league, I never bought it.

Brown is clearly worthless, he needs to retire. :-t

I have no idea why Cashman spent any money on Jaret Wright, yes he's won two games, but his ERA is like 27 and he's had all of one good season, with the Mazzone effect in play, where he did anything but suck ass. Milton would have been better, IMO. :-t

Moose can still be effective but lets face it, he's starting the twilight of his career.

That leaves Unit and Pavano. You can't win the world title with just Unit and Pavano, and that makes me think a deadline deal is coming, but who can the Yankees move? And who can they get? :-?

Discuss.
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Postby TheYanks04 » Sat Apr 23, 2005 3:30 pm

Well, the Wright signing was a classic case of a GM that screwed up and then compounded his mistake by not admitting it.

They had an option on Leiber for 8M...they declined it thinking they could sign him for 2 years at 12M...the price for pitching went up and Leiber could get 3/22 M more or less. Cashman was unwilling to admit the mistake he made in reading the market and instead signed Wright rather than now give Leiber 3/22 because he would have looked silly declining the option then. Add Wright to Weaver, Vazquez and Brown on the list of Cashman pitching stupidity.

Brown was worthless last season and this comes as no surprise. An old pitcher with a bad back coming off a crummy year. Add in bad attitude too and the fact that he is always making excuses.

Mosse will be fine imo. Yeah he is not in his prime, but his control has been off and he is still getting by. When he finds it he will post some very good number I think. Pavano and RJ are OK also.

Wright just got hurt to go along with Sturtz, so the Yanks likely will be calling up a minor leaguer to go along with Brown ...not pretty.


And behind all of this there is the HORRIBLE hitting which is making half the scrubs in the league (Nomo, Park, Young, Chen) look like Cy Young. That lineup at the bottom is downright awful. Bernie looks like he is a 260 hitter now at best. Giambi is near worthless. Tino has not done much wth the stick. Womack looks lousy. Posada is not hitting. And Arod is doing his hit nothing with men on base routine. It will get better at some point, but right now, this team looks pretty darn awful.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:21 pm

Yank04, there's several things I agree with you on, but some I don't.

First, Kevin Brown and Jaret Wright are awful. Agreed. But, Cashman did pretty much admit his mistake with Wright. I just listened to him on WFAN on Mike and the Maddog and he reiterated that nobody expected the market for pitching to explode like it did (when the Mets gave Benson an insane contract.) By that time, Lieber's option was already declined.

He said that looking back, they should have just picked up Lieber's option, but it was impossible to tell the Mets were going to make such a big offer to Benson. Cashman said the same thing in spring training, so it's not just because Wright sucks and is hurt that he is saying this.

You can call Weaver an idiot move, but you contradict yourself when you call Brown one, considering we moved Weaver to get Brown. Weaver was an absolute joke in New York, there was no question that Brown was clearly the better option at the time of the trade. I believe that Brown sucks, but at the time he was coming off a pretty good year, it's hard to dump ALL the blame on Cashman for that....most of the blame belongs on Brown himself for being such crap.

I agree with your points on Mussina. He's not the Moose of old, but he pitched very well in the postseason last year against the Twins and Sox and flashed signs of greatness. He is a great number 2 pitcher, and an unbelievable number 3.

RJ and Pavano will be fine if they are healthy, knock on wood. Alot of people had doubts about Pavano, including myself, but he's pitching pretty good so far. Hopefully that keeps up.

With the tandem of RJ, Pavano and Mussina, the Yankees staff is still one of the top in the league, considering any of those guys are number 1 pitchers on 85% of teams in baseball.

The hitting will heat up, as much as we want it to remains to be seen. A-Rod is disgusting me right now with his play, and I agree Bernie and Tino look old. They still have the best offense in baseball though, IMO, if all cylinders are running smoothly.

A player that WFAN mentioned that could be available at the trade deadline is Barry Zito. I'm not high on him at all, but you know he's better than Brown and Wright, and if Oakland's out of the race, he could be moved by August.

I'm not sure who is a FA at the end of the year, now that Sheets is signed long term. Are there any good pitchers on bad teams that are in their contract year?
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Postby TheYanks04 » Thu Apr 28, 2005 12:24 pm

I know Cashman admitted the mistake...sort of. But he has not to my knowledge admitted that he should have just paid Leiber what the market was bearing after that anyway rather than sign a stiff like Wright. The Wrigth signing was widely disapproved of by a lot of Yankee fans. And it is turning out that they were pretty much right about it.

As to Brown, I disagree. Cashman made the Weaver hole and then dug it deeper with Brown. Say what you will but the entire mess started with Cashman trading for Jeffy boy and then trying to correct the mistake later with Brown. Yes you can't blame him for not knowing what an utter loser Brown is, but the buck stops and started with him on the issue, so who else is to be held accountable in management? It is his job to bring in goos players who get the job done. He has failed miserably with Weaver, Brown, Wright and Vazquez.

As to who is available...no on eany good I think. Zito is not worth wasting time on. Maybe Moyer if the Ms fall out of the race by July. But the same problem will remain, we have nothing to trade for anyone any good. Most liekly they will settle by getting someone fmediocre at best on a salary dump just to be a 4th or 5th starter.
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Postby BronXBombers51 » Thu Apr 28, 2005 11:17 pm

If Houston is out of it by the deadline, I expect Rocket Clemens to be in pinstripes come August.

He's said he would like to go back to the Yankees if he is traded. Houston can't score for crap. They've been shut out 5 times already if I'm not mistaken. If this keeps up and they don't have a realistic chance at the All-Star break, I think the Astros will start to shop him, and the number 1 team in the running would be the Yankees, I think.

We'd probably have to compete with Boston over him, though.
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Postby dimaggio5 » Fri Apr 29, 2005 12:48 am

TheYanks04 wrote:Cashman made the Weaver hole and then dug it deeper with Brown. Say what you will but the entire mess started with Cashman trading for Jeffy boy and then trying to correct the mistake later with Brown. Yes you can't blame him for not knowing what an utter loser Brown is, but the buck stops and started with him on the issue, so who else is to be held accountable in management? It is his job to bring in goos players who get the job done. He has failed miserably with Weaver, Brown, Wright and Vazquez.


Cashman is horrible. On any other team with a lesser budget he'd been fired by now.

In my opinion, a GM not only has to be able to work trades but he also has to have a eye for noticing latent talent and finding gems in the rough. In his tenure, Cashman brought big busts to New York like Mondesi, Weaver, Denny Neagle, Gabe White, Felix Heredia and even Aaron Boone has to be included in this mix even though I liked him. Cashman's trading is like a fantasy team owner trading players. He really has no real deep insight or feel for the players he's acquiring or giving up. Now Gene Micheal was a GM who did have these traits. Cashman's only decent trade was for Sturtze and that was a gift given to him from someone outside the Yankees organization. Now if even I had known and heard of Sturze before he was a Yank why didn't Cashman?

Everyone saw Lilly's potential when he pitched in NY and I think most agreed that Lilly's upside was equal to or larger than Weaver's. Plus he was a lefty and had the mental toughness to handle NY. His makeup was much like Pettite's IMO. Cashman said he had to pull the trade when the opportunity presented itself to get a pitcher like Weaver. Problem was, he already had that pitcher in Lilly whom already had proven that he could handle NY.

Cashman is a good man to have in the organization but he just doesn't have the feel or the eye for players. His track record has proven that so far.

I would love to get Clemens back in NY but I don't really see a fit trade wise with the minor league talent the Yanks currently have. Who do you trade for a 3 month rent a player without overpaying but yet enticing enough for Houston. If cash is involved then I can see the potential but otherwise it's going to be tough. Maybe we can bribe the Astros to take Brown off our hands.
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