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If you were the manager...

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Postby LBJackal » Thu Mar 18, 2004 4:17 pm

I don't get it. It would be ball four to load the bases. Am I missing something?
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Postby Andy1234 » Thu Mar 18, 2004 4:35 pm

I am missing it too, I'm curious to know why it works, and if it does why hasn't it been used?
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Postby Mookie4ever » Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:04 pm

I think what he is saying is that it would be ball 4 but the runner moving from 2nd to 3rd would be forced out by the throw to 3rd. Is that it?

The problem is that it is a dead ball on a walk and does not become a live ball again until the ump calls "play". On a walk, it remains a dead ball until the runners have had an opportunity to take their base - then the ump will call play.
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Postby mikcou » Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:20 pm

plus it would be a balk anyway...
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Postby MikeeDee » Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:57 pm

mikcou wrote:plus it would be a balk anyway...


Not necessarily. It's not a balk unless you've started your motion to the home plate already. If you haven't gone further than lifting your leg you can still technically throw to third.

I would personally like to see some early steals with runners on 1st and 3rd.
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Postby Arlo » Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:20 pm

Andy1234 wrote:I am missing it too, I'm curious to know why it works, and if it does why hasn't it been used?

Normally, if the pitcher throws to an empty bag from the windup it's a balk (not a ball). In this case, however, with the runners going with the pitch, there's a play to be made. The throw is legal, and the runner can be tagged... :-)

I'm not sure why it isn't used. The one time this play was tried (at least from what I've read) was in the minors. The manager who came up with the strategy informed the umpires in advance to make sure they'd make the correct call (as is common if a trick play is planned), but for some reason, an umpire told the opposing manager. When the situation came about, the runners didn't take off with the pitch, and the throw was ruled a balk. And that was the end of that play...
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Postby cwebb » Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:28 pm

More running and squeeze plays would be great.

I'd also try to get more guys to play pitcher and other positions as well, like Brooks Kieschnick and now David McCarty.

Hampton is a pretty good batter, too, so why not play him in the outfield. If the pitcher got injured, you could use the P/OF guy to get the next out. Until then another pitcher can get warmed up...
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Postby LBJackal » Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:14 pm

Arlo wrote:
Andy1234 wrote:I am missing it too, I'm curious to know why it works, and if it does why hasn't it been used?

Normally, if the pitcher throws to an empty bag from the windup it's a balk (not a ball). In this case, however, with the runners going with the pitch, there's a play to be made. The throw is legal, and the runner can be tagged... :-)

I'm not sure why it isn't used. The one time this play was tried (at least from what I've read) was in the minors. The manager who came up with the strategy informed the umpires in advance to make sure they'd make the correct call (as is common if a trick play is planned), but for some reason, an umpire told the opposing manager. When the situation came about, the runners didn't take off with the pitch, and the throw was ruled a balk. And that was the end of that play...


The runners don't take off until the pitcher has started his motion to the plate. I've always thought in that situation, why not try a pickoff attempt since you know they're running. But they wait until the pitcher is almost throwing to home, they don't take a normal big jump as if they're trying to steal a base. I don't think that play would work very well....
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Postby Mookie4ever » Sat Mar 27, 2004 9:58 pm

The one trick that I have always wondered about is this:

No-one on base.
Batter has two strikes and fewer than three balls.
The pitcher uncorks a wild pitch, to the backstop, into the stands or into the dugout.

Why doesn't the batter swing at it for strike three and then run to first base on the wild pitch?
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Postby DK » Sat Mar 27, 2004 11:19 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:The one trick that I have always wondered about is this:

No-one on base.
Batter has two strikes and fewer than three balls.
The pitcher uncorks a wild pitch, to the backstop, into the stands or into the dugout.

Why doesn't the batter swing at it for strike three and then run to first base on the wild pitch?


I've always thought about that too. 8-o

Even with someone on base, under three balls it could be very beneficial.
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