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What are you doing with Zito?

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Postby TheYanks04 » Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:15 am

Royals O is no where near as bad as the A's. If this keeps up, the A's O will be compared to the Tigers of a couple of years ago and H2h leagues will be WW frenzied as owners scramble each night to get the next scheduled starter that is going up against the A's.
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Postby Madison » Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:24 am

TheYanks04 wrote:Royals O is no where near as bad as the A's. If this keeps up, the A's O will be compared to the Tigers of a couple of years ago and H2h leagues will be WW frenzied as owners scramble each night to get the next scheduled starter that is going up against the A's.


Some leagues are already doing that. Even in roto leagues. O:-)
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Postby George_Foreman » Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:16 am

meh. i think i'm just going to start picking up SPs going against atlanta in every april from here on out.

heck, i'll even do it in roto and get all of my IPs over in the first month so i can worry about hitting for the other five. :-D
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Postby ocmusicjunkie » Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:36 am

This thread is so typical of what fantasy baseball has reduced most "fans" to.

Everyone is looking at a handful of stats (usually very generic ones like ER's) and assessing someone's worth. I looked at the Ollie Perez thread today, and it was almost three pages in before someone mentioned he was throwing mid-90’s again... everyone just cared that he wasn’t allowing runs.

Everyone is so fast to jump on and off of bandwagons, without even knowing what they are looking at. I’ve not seen one person here explain WHY Zito can’t pitch now like he did in 03. His stuff is all the same. If you’ve actually watched games, you can see pitchers look totally LOST when he is on... just like they did back then. This isn’t the gradual digression of quality that you find in someone like Matt Morris the past couple of years... this is being really dominant, then faltering.

Why does it happen now, but not back then? Pitch selection. If you watch, he’s (for some reason) fallen in love with his fastball when he’s behind. He didn’t used to do this. As I’m sure everyone realizes, his BB rate has always been high for an ace... even in his prime. That used to be because he threw breaking pitches in fastball counts.... now it’s because he’s trying to nibble with his 90mph heater.

He was really hurt with the departure of Rick Peterson... which I suspect has much to do with how his approach has changed. I’m just hoping at some point Young talks to Zito about his selection and might encourage him to be a bit more liberal again.

In any case, I’m not comfortable dropping someone who is simply a few tactical decisions away from being an elite pitcher again.
Help please:
http://www.fantasybaseballcafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1086524#1086524


Harden- 2.15 ERA, 7.61 K/9
Peavy - 2.89 ERA, 10.10 K/9

[b]Lets go Rich![/b]
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Postby CubsFan7724 » Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:51 am

GSes wrote:
TheYanks04 wrote:I know many use the argument that Rick Petersen helped Zito and that without him Zito has lost some of his command. How much truth there is to that I have no idea. It is an interesting theory though.


it's a very true theory, it was something I was worried about the second Peterson left. that man is a pitching coach god. ;-D

He went to the Mets right? Didn't do so hot there :-D

(BTW, Buerhle is a CASH MONEY start against a struggling As offense in Oakland. Buehrle has a sub 3 ERA away from home for his career.)
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Postby nikku88 » Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:54 am

Isn't Petersen the guy that wanted to trade for Zambrano and said he could fix him?
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Postby AcidRock23 » Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:03 am

ocmusicjunkie wrote:This thread is so typical of what fantasy baseball has reduced most "fans" to.

Everyone is looking at a handful of stats (usually very generic ones like ER's) and assessing someone's worth. I looked at the Ollie Perez thread today, and it was almost three pages in before someone mentioned he was throwing mid-90’s again... everyone just cared that he wasn’t allowing runs.

Everyone is so fast to jump on and off of bandwagons, without even knowing what they are looking at. I’ve not seen one person here explain WHY Zito can’t pitch now like he did in 03. His stuff is all the same. If you’ve actually watched games, you can see pitchers look totally LOST when he is on... just like they did back then. This isn’t the gradual digression of quality that you find in someone like Matt Morris the past couple of years... this is being really dominant, then faltering.

Why does it happen now, but not back then? Pitch selection. If you watch, he’s (for some reason) fallen in love with his fastball when he’s behind. He didn’t used to do this. As I’m sure everyone realizes, his BB rate has always been high for an ace... even in his prime. That used to be because he threw breaking pitches in fastball counts.... now it’s because he’s trying to nibble with his 90mph heater.

He was really hurt with the departure of Rick Peterson... which I suspect has much to do with how his approach has changed. I’m just hoping at some point Young talks to Zito about his selection and might encourage him to be a bit more liberal again.

In any case, I’m not comfortable dropping someone who is simply a few tactical decisions away from being an elite pitcher again.


Didn't Zito change his motion a bit in the offseason before last year, concurrently w/ Peterson's departure? I recall hearing something to that effect in the news back when he started to struggle last year too. I agree that it seems like a 'head' issue rather than a 'tools' issue. Not sure if it can be fixed or not. The Oak clubhouse must be pretty grim these days.

Or could it just be that they are matched up against the Sox? hee hee...
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Postby RynMan » Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:20 am

slomo007 wrote:Another start, another trademark Zito big inning blowup.

So who's finally deciding to drop him? C'mon, I know you're out there. Join the club, there's plenty of room on the bus.


Mo, I agree with the Mogrifier, you gotta trade anyone who someone will pick up after u drop him. U may think he is droppable but others dont. Use that to your advantage. Dropping him is a bad move.
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Postby slomo007 » Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:12 am

RynMan wrote:
slomo007 wrote:Another start, another trademark Zito big inning blowup.

So who's finally deciding to drop him? C'mon, I know you're out there. Join the club, there's plenty of room on the bus.


Mo, I agree with the Mogrifier, you gotta trade anyone who someone will pick up after u drop him. U may think he is droppable but others dont. Use that to your advantage. Dropping him is a bad move.


I dropped him in my 12 team league and he cleared waivers and is sitting where he deserves to be - in FA.
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Postby slomo007 » Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:14 am

ocmusicjunkie wrote:This thread is so typical of what fantasy baseball has reduced most "fans" to.

Everyone is looking at a handful of stats (usually very generic ones like ER's) and assessing someone's worth. I looked at the Ollie Perez thread today, and it was almost three pages in before someone mentioned he was throwing mid-90’s again... everyone just cared that he wasn’t allowing runs.

Everyone is so fast to jump on and off of bandwagons, without even knowing what they are looking at. I’ve not seen one person here explain WHY Zito can’t pitch now like he did in 03. His stuff is all the same. If you’ve actually watched games, you can see pitchers look totally LOST when he is on... just like they did back then. This isn’t the gradual digression of quality that you find in someone like Matt Morris the past couple of years... this is being really dominant, then faltering.

Why does it happen now, but not back then? Pitch selection. If you watch, he’s (for some reason) fallen in love with his fastball when he’s behind. He didn’t used to do this. As I’m sure everyone realizes, his BB rate has always been high for an ace... even in his prime. That used to be because he threw breaking pitches in fastball counts.... now it’s because he’s trying to nibble with his 90mph heater.

He was really hurt with the departure of Rick Peterson... which I suspect has much to do with how his approach has changed. I’m just hoping at some point Young talks to Zito about his selection and might encourage him to be a bit more liberal again.

In any case, I’m not comfortable dropping someone who is simply a few tactical decisions away from being an elite pitcher again.


Wow, before you start preaching you may want to read this thread. I have said all of the exact things you are talking about, and GSes myself and RynMan have all had in-depth discussions as to why he gets lit up in particular innings. I am not a bandwagon jumper, this is something that I've been watching ever since the second half of last year. Please, read the thread and then if you have anything new to add, go for it...we would love to hear it. The more info the better.
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