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What are you doing with Zito?

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Postby TheYanks04 » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:06 am

Maybe some A's fan can comment on this, but it looks to me that Zito is a 2 pitch pitcher...curvenall and fastball with a fastball that is very mediocre. Hitter's basically sit on the fastball and hammer it, esp when he can't get his curve working well.
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Postby GSes » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:07 am

slomo007 wrote:Another start, another trademark Zito big inning blowup.

So who's finally deciding to drop him? C'mon, I know you're out there. Join the club, there's plenty of room on the bus.



it was a pretty encouraging outing slomo. did you watch the game? I did. I don't think you can just look at the box score you need to actaully watch the game.

Zito cruised from the start of the game until the white sox backup catcher got up

walk
2 run home run
bloop single
bloop single
stolen base
pop up
Carl Everett base hit down the line to score 2

4ER in the 7th inning

Zito cruises 1-6 and gets into trobule in the 7th, in his defense on this one, his pitch count was over a 100 in the 7th inning, no doubt he tired out.

but slomo I fail to see how people can't be encouraged by 2nite's game. He had 6.1 inninga of complete dominance, he didn't even get knocked around in the 7th, just 1 mistake.

i feel he is pitching pretty well right now, the ERA will come down.
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Postby GSes » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:08 am

TheYanks04 wrote:Maybe some A's fan can comment on this, but it looks to me that Zito is a 2 pitch pitcher...curvenall and fastball with a fastball that is very mediocre. Hitter's basically sit on the fastball and hammer it, esp when he can't get his curve working well.


um no he is a 4 pitch pitcher

he has his standard
Curve
Fastball
Changeup

and he has just the last week added a slider
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Postby TheYanks04 » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:09 am

That is like saying he is pitching well but he is just giving up too many runs.
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Postby TheYanks04 » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:12 am

GSes wrote:
TheYanks04 wrote:Maybe some A's fan can comment on this, but it looks to me that Zito is a 2 pitch pitcher...curvenall and fastball with a fastball that is very mediocre. Hitter's basically sit on the fastball and hammer it, esp when he can't get his curve working well.


um no he is a 4 pitch pitcher

he has his standard
Curve
Fastball
Changeup

and he has just the last week added a slider



Anyone can throw a bad changeup. He hardly has a Pedro or Santana change.
Last edited by TheYanks04 on Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby slomo007 » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:12 am

GSes wrote:
slomo007 wrote:Another start, another trademark Zito big inning blowup.

So who's finally deciding to drop him? C'mon, I know you're out there. Join the club, there's plenty of room on the bus.



it was a pretty encouraging outing slomo. did you watch the game? I did. I don't think you can just look at the box score you need to actaully watch the game.

Zito cruised from the start of the game until the white sox backup catcher got up

walk
2 run home run
bloop single
bloop single
stolen base
pop up
Carl Everett base hit down the line to score 2

4ER in the 7th inning

Zito cruises 1-6 and gets into trobule in the 7th, in his defense on this one, his pitch count was over a 100 in the 7th inning, no doubt he tired out.

but slomo I fail to see how people can't be encouraged by 2nite's game. He had 6.1 inninga of complete dominance, he didn't even get knocked around in the 7th, just 1 mistake.

i feel he is pitching pretty well right now, the ERA will come down.


No, I didn't watch the game except for the updates through StatTracker. I did see him however get lucky in like the 5th or 6th inning with a couple runners on and the inexperienced Tadahito at the plate with 2 outs. If he were an American batter who truly has the book on Zito, that would have been a big inning as well IMO (do you know if he swung at his curve rather than waiting for the fastball? I didn't get to see it).

It is exactly his 6.1 innings of "dominance" that makes people think he'll rebound. I just don't get it, the stats at the end of the game are all that matters and he consistently has pathetic stats at the end of the game thanks to the big innings. That's like saying that a relief pitcher has a 99 MPH fastball that blows batters away, but then again he walks 3 guys per inning and allows a HR per 10 ABs in the meantime. But yeah, he was dominant between being lit up.

There is no excuse, keep him if you wish, but I fail to see any value in him whatsoever.
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Postby GSes » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:19 am

slomo007 wrote:
GSes wrote:
slomo007 wrote:Another start, another trademark Zito big inning blowup.

So who's finally deciding to drop him? C'mon, I know you're out there. Join the club, there's plenty of room on the bus.



it was a pretty encouraging outing slomo. did you watch the game? I did. I don't think you can just look at the box score you need to actaully watch the game.

Zito cruised from the start of the game until the white sox backup catcher got up

walk
2 run home run
bloop single
bloop single
stolen base
pop up
Carl Everett base hit down the line to score 2

4ER in the 7th inning

Zito cruises 1-6 and gets into trobule in the 7th, in his defense on this one, his pitch count was over a 100 in the 7th inning, no doubt he tired out.

but slomo I fail to see how people can't be encouraged by 2nite's game. He had 6.1 inninga of complete dominance, he didn't even get knocked around in the 7th, just 1 mistake.

i feel he is pitching pretty well right now, the ERA will come down.


No, I didn't watch the game except for the updates through StatTracker. I did see him however get lucky in like the 5th or 6th inning with a couple runners on and the inexperienced Tadahito at the plate with 2 outs. If he were an American batter who truly has the book on Zito, that would have been a big inning as well IMO (do you know if he swung at his curve rather than waiting for the fastball? I didn't get to see it).

It is exactly his 6.1 innings of "dominance" that makes people think he'll rebound. I just don't get it, the stats at the end of the game are all that matters and he consistently has pathetic stats at the end of the game thanks to the big innings. That's like saying that a relief pitcher has a 99 MPH fastball that blows batters away, but then again he walks 3 guys per inning and allows a HR per 10 ABs in the meantime. But yeah, he was dominant between being lit up.

There is no excuse, keep him if you wish, but I fail to see any value in him whatsoever.



uh slomo is completely ludacris for you to be making asumptions of things like o well the 3rd inning could have been huge because tadhito is inexperienced and dosen't know how to hit zito. wtf are u joking me.

you did not watch the game, there for you can in no way make assumptions like that, that is not your place to do that and I think you know that, and calling zito LUCKY? cuz he got a guy to chase a curveball in the dirt and got out of one inning with guys on basE? comee on, i guess everytime any pitcher gets a guy out we need to call him lucky? thats a joke.

Now your right, the final line in the box score does not look all that great, and that is your and everyone else's choice on how they want to look at a player's performance.

I watched the game, I saw he pitched great, the pitch count got up there and the guys that got on before everett got up ONLY GOT ON because of lucky bloop singles. if zito gets them out, then he only gives up 2ER and his night is pretty good.
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Postby TheYanks04 » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:21 am

I am hardly an expert, but I saw most of his outrtng today. It still looks to me that he is a very beatable pitcher when his curve is not working at high levels. The old Zito could throw his wicked curve for strikes consistently and that made his fastball a very effective pitch. Now hitters look like they are sitting on the heat knowing he will eventually get behind some hitters and they can tee off on his very mediocre fastball.
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Postby slomo007 » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:24 am

GSes wrote:uh slomo is completely ludacris for you to be making asumptions of things like o well the 3rd inning could have been huge because tadhito is inexperienced and dosen't know how to hit zito. wtf are u joking me.

you did not watch the game, there for you can in no way make assumptions like that, that is not your place to do that and I think you know that, and calling zito LUCKY? cuz he got a guy to chase a curveball in the dirt and got out of one inning with guys on basE? comee on, i guess everytime any pitcher gets a guy out we need to call him lucky? thats a joke.

Now your right, the final line in the box score does not look all that great, and that is your and everyone else's choice on how they want to look at a player's performance.

I watched the game, I saw he pitched great, the pitch count got up there and the guys that got on before everett got up ONLY GOT ON because of lucky bloop singles. if zito gets them out, then he only gives up 2ER and his night is pretty good.


GSes, hear me out before bashing me. If Tadahito really knew Zito the same way 75% of the other batters know Zito....he would have known that when Zito has runners on base, he can't afford to walk someone. When he can't afford to walk someone, he abandons his curve when he's behind in the count. Therefore, what you need to do is simply wait for the fastball....which WILL come when he misses his curve location (which he tends to do when runners are on base). That is how you beat Zito...I'm not even a Major Leaguer and I can figure it out.

It's not ludcrious if you really think about it. That inning could have been big, but Zito had a batter who chased a curve like most batters wouldn't have done when Zito is in trouble. That's exactly what leads to his big innings, and that's what would have led to another one if he were more expereienced with him.
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Postby slomo007 » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:26 am

TheYanks04 wrote:Now hitters look like they are sitting on the heat knowing he will eventually get behind some hitters and they can tee off on his very mediocre fastball.


Bingo, you hit the nail on the head. And that after admitting you are not an expert.

Zito has nothing when he's got runners on and is behind in the count. The only reason he is dominant through portions is when he prevents the runners getting on in the first place. That won't happen consistently though, due to the overwhelming chances that there will be a couple of bloop singles or an error or some other way of men getting on base.
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