TheYanks04 wrote:Sundberg was a .245 or so weak hitting C with no power. I am sure that whatever rituals he pulled at the plate were acceptable to opposition pitchers because of that. They probably paid his cab fare to the park.
According to Bill James he's the 32nd best catcher of all time with the best ratio of double plays to errors of any catcher in MLB history. He is the standard of defensive excellence and certainly was a team leader, a consumate profeesional, and certainly someone who if your terribly less than smart (to be nice) statement had been true about nomar getting buzzed, was certainly someone who was buzzworthy. Offensively he was below average but if you had the chance to take out the teams best defensive player by plunking him, you would. Don't rip on the guy just because you think Nomar is putting on a show.
According to Bill James, Alan Embree is a fine closer so who needed Urbina?
Sundberg had to be good defensively because he could not hit a lick. As an opposition pitcher, you hardly want to plunk a weak hitter and the opposition's C to boot because that is dumb and likely would get your C plunked. Not the best way to win points with your battery mate. Let's see, buzz Nomar or buzz Barrett...Buzz Vlad or buzz Molina...yeah OK.
And here's the reverse argument to what you just said. Plunk Vlad over Molina? I dont think so you're liable to get your whole team killed not just the catcher. You never EVER hit stars like that, that's a reason for a full-club brawl. Why do you think Gretzky was never injured in hockey? Because the bruisers would make sure if you touched him you died. I'll take my chances plunking a weak offensive catcher than Vlad who might kill you himself let alone the entire team. Smart thinking Yanks. Buzz Vlad, yeah you go ahead and buzz him and see if you end up with the same number of internal organs as you started with.
Forget the man crush. I drop what I'm doing to watch Zack Greinke pitch.
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Vlad does not show up anyone with anything but his bat. That was an example of why not to hit a scrub C though in fairness to Molina, he is better than a scrub.
And 240 hitting Cs with no power can take however long they like in between pitches. Why would I waste my time hitting them? I want them in the lineup to give me 4 soft outs. With Nomar, yeah you run the risk of starting something. Like that ever stopped Pedro from plunking people. Or Clemens. Pedro hit Soriano and Jeter back to back one game in the first inning and got away with it. And in that case the batters did nothing to show up anyone.
Last edited by TheYanks04 on Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TheYanks04 wrote:Sundberg had to be good defensively because he could not hit a lick. As an opposition pitcher, you hardly want to plunk a weak hitter and the opposition's C to boot because that is dumb and likely would get your C plunked. Not the best way to win points with your battery mate. Let's see, buzz Nomar or buzz Barrett...Buzz Vlad or buzz Molina...yeah OK.
You know, it really is pretty tiresome when a bunch of wet-behind-the-ear fan boys who think David Cone's rookie year was ancient history fail to understand that the game has become MUCH more offense-oriented. When Sunny played, son, a .245 hittiing catcher with some pop was a pretty reasonable player.
The slavish devotion to Bill James is so amusing. Sundberg the 32nd best catcher to play in the big leagues? There are currently 14 catchers in the Hall of Fame, and we are supposed to believe that there are only 18 more catchers out there that were better than Sundberg? Just catchers currently playing the game would include Pudge, Piazza, Varitek, Posada, Lopez, all of whom are better. That narrows it down to 13. Sundberg received exactly one vote for the hall of fame. Even Steve Yeager got two. You can throw Elston Howard in there as being better, Torre, Ted Simmons, heck, even Bob Boone was better. James is treated like his words are written in red type in the New Testament by his disciples with no regard to actual reality.
Not to get off-track or anything, but Rotoworld is reporting this:
Cubs placed shortstop Nomar Garciaparra on the 15-day disabled list with a left groin injury.
With the muscle torn away from the bone, Nomar is likely to miss two or three months, maybe even longer. Surgery is an option, but that won't be decided on for a little while. ``The surgery is really going to be determined by is it something that Nomar wants to do,'' trainer Mark O'Neal said. ``We're trying to make a determination of what would be the most predictable outcome.'' Neifi Perez will replace Garciaparra as the Cubs' starting shortstop.
"Muscle torn away from the bone," eh? Kinda gruesome.
"The game has a cleanness. If you do a good job, the numbers say so. You don't have to ask anyone or play politics. You don't have to wait for the reviews."
Mike Piazza 2003 is instructive here. Sounds like a similar situation -- grade 3 tear of muscle from bone. I know he went down in mid-late May and I think he was back near the tail end of the season. He did play 68 games that year.
If memory serves me right he did not require surgery.
Well, I have Nomar and I'm going to hold on another week or so before I decide what to do.
Now I have no SS. And I traded Derick Lee and Smoltz for Pedro and Nomar. I did this before the season started. At that time it looked like a steal for me, but with Nomar getting hurt I will come away from the losing side of the deal unless Pedro wins the Cy young.
The best SS: left are Lugo, Izturis and J. Valentine
I might have to try and trade for Rollins/Furcal/Renteria type SS