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O's Want Helton

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Postby bselig » Tue Apr 19, 2005 6:11 pm

What are the O's trying to do? Get players that are good at baseball, I'd think. What do you want them to do, burn money on pitchers like Carl Pavano or Loaizia (sp?)? I'll take a team with a lineup stacked with stud hitters and unproven pitchers over a team with a weaker lineup and high priced failures on its staff
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Postby Slow Pitch » Tue Apr 19, 2005 6:16 pm

Its not going to happen. It is just talk.

:-/
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Postby Laean » Tue Apr 19, 2005 6:27 pm

i agree that his homers would fall toward the 25 and his avg would fall toward the .300 range, but i don't get why some of you guys are predicting 100 rbis or comparing him to sean casey. hitting in that lineup (roberts and mora in front, tejada sosa behind) could easily result in 110+ runs and 120+ rbis in my opinion, balancing out the loss in homers and avg. he's tons better than sean casey even away from coors. when's the last time sean casey even got 100+ 100+?
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Postby slomo007 » Tue Apr 19, 2005 6:57 pm

Laean wrote:i agree that his homers would fall toward the 25 and his avg would fall toward the .300 range, but i don't get why some of you guys are predicting 100 rbis or comparing him to sean casey. hitting in that lineup (roberts and mora in front, tejada sosa behind) could easily result in 110+ runs and 120+ rbis in my opinion, balancing out the loss in homers and avg. he's tons better than sean casey even away from coors. when's the last time sean casey even got 100+ 100+?


Last year, despite missing 15 games....Casey had 101 runs and 99 RBI. Balanced out, that's 100/100 exactly.

Helton = Casey outside of Coors, there is no doubt. The only people arguing against it are Helton owners. :-b
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Postby iversonxp » Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:05 pm

bselig wrote:What are the O's trying to do? Get players that are good at baseball, I'd think. What do you want them to do, burn money on pitchers like Carl Pavano or Loaizia (sp?)? I'll take a team with a lineup stacked with stud hitters and unproven pitchers over a team with a weaker lineup and high priced failures on its staff


u saying with helton o's > yanks?
i doubt it.
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Postby ocmusicjunkie » Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:17 pm

slomo007 wrote:
Laean wrote:i agree that his homers would fall toward the 25 and his avg would fall toward the .300 range, but i don't get why some of you guys are predicting 100 rbis or comparing him to sean casey. hitting in that lineup (roberts and mora in front, tejada sosa behind) could easily result in 110+ runs and 120+ rbis in my opinion, balancing out the loss in homers and avg. he's tons better than sean casey even away from coors. when's the last time sean casey even got 100+ 100+?


Last year, despite missing 15 games....Casey had 101 runs and 99 RBI. Balanced out, that's 100/100 exactly.

Helton = Casey outside of Coors, there is no doubt. The only people arguing against it are Helton owners. :-b


The Helton owners are arguing against it because we're the ones who actually realize how good of hitter he is.

Go look at road/home splits for most people. Most good hitters have better numbers at home. You're used to the clubhouse, view from the box, field, everything.
Help please:
http://www.fantasybaseballcafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1086524#1086524


Harden- 2.15 ERA, 7.61 K/9
Peavy - 2.89 ERA, 10.10 K/9

[b]Lets go Rich![/b]
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Postby davidmarver » Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:18 pm

slomo007 wrote:Helton = Casey outside of Coors, there is no doubt. The only people arguing against it are Helton owners. :-b


Helton is still immensely talented. Helton outside Coors, but still with the Rockie lineup is Sean Casey. Helton outside Coors, in friendly hitters park Camden Yards, with Baltimore's lineup can only increase his value.

Lets not forget that most hitters hit better at home (Casey doesn't though) so to simply average out a players road statistics over 162 has little relevency with how he'll play.

Besides all this, look at the potential matchups Helton would face. He would no longer have to play a combined 27-30 games in San Francisco, Los Angeles, and San Diego; three teams with pitchers parks. Instead those games will be played in Yankee Stadium, Fenway, Tropicana, and the SkyDome. I dont know about you, but I certainly like that more than what he had to face on the road in the NL.

The "drop" in his home statistics everyone is presuming (even though Camden is a nice hitter's park) would be offset by the increase his road statistics would provide.

If I owned Helton, which I don't, I'd only be concerned about his move if on-base percentage (or walks) was one of the categories in my league. In OPS leagues, the increase in slugging he'd see, due to the increase in hittable pitches, will offset the decrease in on base percentage.

On another note, I think this deal could go through. Look, it wasn't long ago that the Orioles competed year in and year out. With a new team in the vicinity, Angelos certainly needs to retain all his fans and win over some other potential National fans. We've already seen this with the addition of Sosa this last offseason.
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Postby slomo007 » Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:22 pm

ocmusicjunkie wrote:
slomo007 wrote:
Laean wrote:i agree that his homers would fall toward the 25 and his avg would fall toward the .300 range, but i don't get why some of you guys are predicting 100 rbis or comparing him to sean casey. hitting in that lineup (roberts and mora in front, tejada sosa behind) could easily result in 110+ runs and 120+ rbis in my opinion, balancing out the loss in homers and avg. he's tons better than sean casey even away from coors. when's the last time sean casey even got 100+ 100+?


Last year, despite missing 15 games....Casey had 101 runs and 99 RBI. Balanced out, that's 100/100 exactly.

Helton = Casey outside of Coors, there is no doubt. The only people arguing against it are Helton owners. :-b


The Helton owners are arguing against it because we're the ones who actually realize how good of hitter he is.

Go look at road/home splits for most people. Most good hitters have better numbers at home. You're used to the clubhouse, view from the box, field, everything.


I wish I had more time to address this, maybe I'll come back to it later tonight....but I did want to point out these eye popping stats:

2004 Avg/OPS:
Home: .368/1.183
Away: .326/.991

2003:
Home: .391/1.219
Away: .324/.949

2002:
Home: .378/1.136
Away: .281/.875


He hit at least 50 points better at home than on the road, ranging to a whopping 97 points better at home in 2002. These stats are outrageous.
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Postby Iconoclastic » Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:24 pm

I don't know why people are so HIGH on CASEY. Before last year he was a 20HR 90RBI guy and he still is. I think Helton would turn into Aubrey Huff (without the position eligibility) without Coors. Which is a 4th round pick instead of a 1st round pick. I'd rather see him stay at Coors as a Helton owner.
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Postby ocmusicjunkie » Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:32 pm

I really wish the O's were in the NL so we had road splits far the specific stadium. Those road stats are taking into account all of the horrible hitting parks in his division (LA!) and all over the NL. He does have good road splits for some of the hitters parks... which he would still be playing in.
Help please:
http://www.fantasybaseballcafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1086524#1086524


Harden- 2.15 ERA, 7.61 K/9
Peavy - 2.89 ERA, 10.10 K/9

[b]Lets go Rich![/b]
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