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Postby TheYanks04 » Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:19 pm

0 rings, 0 pennants


And how does the saying go....

Close only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades.
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Postby wrveres » Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:24 pm

Moneyball is not a specific script for how to win...rather it is a philosophy and approach toward running a team. If you don't think that the Braves have used the philosophy of buying low and selling high and utilizing undervalued players

this is sooo funny ...

so now a "moneyball team" is defined as an organization that "Buys Low and Sells hi" ....

Damn, I am glad that Mr . Beane thought that one up. I don't know how a caplitaistic society such as ours could have surived with out that piece of insight.

THANK YOU MR. BEANE ;-D


Oh and to all of you Beaneiacs attacking my Padres...
The San Diego Padres have been to the World Series, Baseballs ultimate goal mind you, alot more recently than any moneyball team has. ..

Oh yeah and at least we actually go to games.
WTF is up with A's fans. They talk so much chit, but don't even go to the game
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Postby CubsFan7724 » Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:25 pm

giants8307 wrote:
CubsFan7724 wrote:
Pokey wrote:
DominicanLou wrote:
chadxor wrote:it's not only about winning, it's about staying competitive in a big money market with a small market team.


Well, the Marlins, who are a small market team, have won the World Series two times in the last eight years. Seems slightly more succesful than what any Moneyball team has done.


While winning it all is the ultimate goal, It can be argued that the regular season is a better representation for how well your team is put together. The postseason is such a small sample size that the best team doesn't always win. The A's have put out alot of teams that were definately good enough to win the series, but just had some rotten luck.

Rotten luck? More like they choked. They were up 2-0 on the Yanks, then lose 3 straight in 01. I was rooting for them so bad, and then they lost savagely. And of course they let Jeter do that play that elevated him to "Defensive God" somehow. :-D


Teams lose 3 straight a lot during the course of a year. The fact that that's all it takes to kick you out of the playoffs seems pretty sketchy to me. The regular season numbers have already been posted, and as you can see, the A's win A LOT. I think it was something like 4 straight trips to the playoffs. Pretty damn good if you ask me.

My post really wasn't that serious :-D
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Postby giants8307 » Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:30 pm

CubsFan7724 wrote:
giants8307 wrote:
CubsFan7724 wrote:
Pokey wrote:
DominicanLou wrote:
chadxor wrote:it's not only about winning, it's about staying competitive in a big money market with a small market team.


Well, the Marlins, who are a small market team, have won the World Series two times in the last eight years. Seems slightly more succesful than what any Moneyball team has done.


While winning it all is the ultimate goal, It can be argued that the regular season is a better representation for how well your team is put together. The postseason is such a small sample size that the best team doesn't always win. The A's have put out alot of teams that were definately good enough to win the series, but just had some rotten luck.

Rotten luck? More like they choked. They were up 2-0 on the Yanks, then lose 3 straight in 01. I was rooting for them so bad, and then they lost savagely. And of course they let Jeter do that play that elevated him to "Defensive God" somehow. :-D


Teams lose 3 straight a lot during the course of a year. The fact that that's all it takes to kick you out of the playoffs seems pretty sketchy to me. The regular season numbers have already been posted, and as you can see, the A's win A LOT. I think it was something like 4 straight trips to the playoffs. Pretty damn good if you ask me.

My post really wasn't that serious :-D


I realize that, I just wanted to continue that line of thought. I'll put an edit in there just for you. By the way, how dare you question Jeter's defensive prowess or status as a diety?? I pray to him every night... ;-7
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Postby LBJackal » Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:43 pm

wrveres wrote:The San Diego Padres have been to the World Series, Baseballs ultimate goal


The Pads have been to the World Series ONCE. Ever. And they were swept. So since they made it that far, that's now the ultimate goal? LMAO. And if they'd only made it to the playoffs, that'd be the ultimate goal, right? No, winning the World Series is the ultimate goal, but it doesn't mean you have to win it or make it there to mean you're doing something right.

I'm not saying the Padres are a bad organization, becaue they're not. I'm saying that winning the World Series, or making it there, is not the only test of being a good team or not. The Jays won it twice but I'm not arguing that they had a smart front office. But if I did, according to you guys I'd have solid evidence since they won it all twice in a row.

The A's have been one of the best teams over the past 5 years. If you're going to argue against them, don't make your argument that they havn't been good. Because that's a foolish argument. They've averaged 96 wins over the past 5 seasons and made the playoffs in 4 of those years. No team except the Yankees can say that.

This is really a pointless argument. Everybody has a different drefintion for Moneyball temas, and you can't have a lot of money and still use the same theories as the book, or that doens't count. And you can't simply hire a sabermetrician and have success, like St. Louis and Boston. You have to be piss poor, and on top of that you not only have to be the second best team in baseball over a span of 5 years, you simply have to make it to the WS and get swept, like the Padres did. LMAO. This is too funny...

Lets see where this thing goes now... LMAO..... :-b
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Postby wrveres » Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:49 pm

the Padres were 'swept' by the the 1998 Yankees.
Arguably the best Yankee team of all time.
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Postby wrveres » Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:52 pm

and maybe that is the A's problem.

Every team I know has a goal in the beginning of the season to "Win the World Series", except the A's. Their goal is to "Be a Good team".

Someone should tell the Beaneiacs, its time to "raise the bar" ;-)
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Postby jimmyrad » Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:00 pm

SouthBronxBombers wrote:I did not contradict myself, because the Braves are not using the moneyball approach. Brian Jordan and Raul Mondesi do not fit the moneyball mold. That they have a limited payroll does not mean they are following moneyball, that is just ridiculous, which is essentially what you are claiming.

Okay, then explain to me why this ISN'T the Moneyball approach. You are missing the point that you don't HAVE to do everything Billy Beane suggested in the book to be taking a "Moneyball" approach. The point of Moneyball, which I tried to explain though you missed it (let it be noted that Billy Beane has also tried to explain this,) is to limit wasting money. The point is not: "Spend money on OBP and college pitchers." If that is all you took from it, you are either reading the cliffnotes version of it, or regurgitating the opinions of someone that has read the cliffnotes version.
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Postby LBJackal » Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:03 pm

How do you know their goal isn't to win the World Series? They're trying to have the best team they can within their budget. You make it sound like they're sacrificing playoff potential to be better in the regular season. They're more or less addressing the idea that the playoffs are random, not saying that they've given up on winning them.

And the '98 Yankees team was definately very good. But it doens't mean simnply making it top the WS is the ultimate goal. The A's have run into the Yankees a couple times in the playoffs and have never been swept by them. They actually made it to the deciding game 5 of the ALDS against them twice.
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Postby wrveres » Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:04 pm

jimmyrad wrote:
SouthBronxBombers wrote:I did not contradict myself, because the Braves are not using the moneyball approach. Brian Jordan and Raul Mondesi do not fit the moneyball mold. That they have a limited payroll does not mean they are following moneyball, that is just ridiculous, which is essentially what you are claiming.

Okay, then explain to me why this ISN'T the Moneyball approach. You are missing the point that you don't HAVE to do everything Billy Beane suggested in the book to be taking a "Moneyball" approach. The point of Moneyball, which I tried to explain though you missed it (let it be noted that Billy Beane has also tried to explain this,) is to limit wasting money. The point is not: "Spend money on OBP and college pitchers." If that is all you took from it, you are either reading the cliffnotes version of it, or regurgitating the opinions of someone that has read the cliffnotes version.


so, the whole book said ...

"don't waste money" ...? ? ?

Brilliant. ;-D

THANK YOU MR BEANE.
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