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Oakland A's - Why is everybody so high on them?

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Postby Pokeyouindaeye » Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:10 am

Ha, that's really ironic.

The team that is fundamentally based in measureable statistics about player's success and how they can help the team; can't win in the playoffs due to something truly intangible, much less measureable by any sort of sabremetric.

Although, I will say that the A's have been jumping through hoops the past few years they've won the AL west, having to deal with strong Mariners (not last year) and Angels teams, much less an up and coming Texas team that doesn't look to be a bottom feeder for long.

Billy Beane has his work sorted out for him.
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Postby RynMan » Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:53 am

I think what kackal and missagnes are getting at is that 5 games does not determine which team is better. It tells you which teams played better during those 5 games. If you flipped a coin 5 times and it landed on heads every time does that mean heads is more likely to land than tails? No. It just means that you need to take a larger sample size to make your assumptions more accurate. Whoever wins the most games during the season (all things being equal - which they're not due to stronger divisions) is the best team.
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Postby Phatferd » Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:58 am

RynMan wrote:I think what kackal and missagnes are getting at is that 5 games does not determine which team is better. It tells you which teams played better during those 5 games. If you flipped a coin 5 times and it landed on heads every time does that mean heads is more likely to land than tails? No. It just means that you need to take a larger sample size to make your assumptions more accurate. Whoever wins the most games during the season (all things being equal - which they're not due to stronger divisions) is the best team.


That isn't true. Especially since a lot of times the division comes down to a couple games. Since interleague teams play a different schedule, so you can't say thats an accurate way to take a sample because you aren't taking the sample from the same exact things.

Let me inform the Steelers that they are actually the best team to play last year. I will also let the Cards fans know that they were actually the best team as well, since the better team wins the regular season.
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Postby RynMan » Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:13 am

Phatferd. you have even said it yourself that you are a traditionalist when it comes to baseball, hence we wont see eye to eye on this topic at all, so Im not gonna bother saying anything else.
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Postby Phatferd » Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:18 am

Then don't post something arguing against my point if you don't want me to respond.

Its not the same sample, so you can't use it. Its a fact.
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Postby Half Massed » Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:03 am

look just to simplify this playoff/regular season discusion, the difference between regular season and playoffs is like the difference between roto and h2h. in roto the best, generally most balanced team, wins most of the time, (excluding injuries, etc.) like in the regular season. while in h2h, the team that might be worse over the whole season could crush the best or most balanced team stastically on streaks, luck, whatever, much like the playoffs. the teams that make it to the playoffs are all fine teams, and you can call the winning teams what you want. you could say some are just built for the short series, some get lucky, or some take something from the underdog mentality and go out there with something to prove, and so on. the best team doesn't always win, so luck is definitally a factor. As for the A's, the reason people like them is because of the scrappy underdog image they carry and the fact that they consistently win with a small payroll in baseball where its a rollercoaster for smaller market teams. the belief that they can win this year isn't suprising since they've showed us multiple times that they can after losing big parts of their teams. and at least they got something from it this time.
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Postby Phatferd » Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:29 am

Half Massed wrote:look just to simplify this playoff/regular season discusion, the difference between regular season and playoffs is like the difference between roto and h2h. in roto the best, generally most balanced team, wins most of the time, (excluding injuries, etc.) like in the regular season. while in h2h, the team that might be worse over the whole season could crush the best or most balanced team stastically on streaks, luck, whatever, much like the playoffs. the teams that make it to the playoffs are all fine teams, and you can call the winning teams what you want. you could say some are just built for the short series, some get lucky, or some take something from the underdog mentality and go out there with something to prove, and so on. the best team doesn't always win, so luck is definitally a factor. As for the A's, the reason people like them is because of the scrappy underdog image they carry and the fact that they consistently win with a small payroll in baseball where its a rollercoaster for smaller market teams. the belief that they can win this year isn't suprising since they've showed us multiple times that they can after losing big parts of their teams. and at least they got something from it this time.


Good Point.

With that said, I would like to ask you something and state something. If the better team doesn't always win, wouldn't it be accurate to say the better teams wins I dunno 70-80% of the time? If this is the case, shouldn't Oakland have won maybe 1 series by now then? Also, if luck played a big role shouldn't they have won one by now too, based on probabilities? (I am talking about series not seasons). Baseball is made up of a whole season of series. Does this mean that whoever wins a series got lucky? Are the A's lucky for winning their series against the Angels this weekend?

My statement is this, if Oakland fans (most in this thread praise their philosophy and defend it like a fan and believer should) think their philosophy is the best one out there so shouldn't this give them the best team? I know you say that the best team wins the regular season, but I think even a rational person would believe that the best team wins 75% of the time.
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Postby LBJackal » Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:33 am

Oakland made it to the playoffs 4 years in a row with a shitty payroll. I don't care how they had so few fans, I'm not their fan anyway, the point is they were very good with very little money. The point is they have the best record other than the Yankees the past 5 years. Jesus Christ, if you're gonna argue something, dont say they aren't a good team. How hard is it to realize that. This isn't about beane, or whatevbr the f$^*&^$ you want it to be about. They were better than any team over the past 5 years other than the $200M friggin Yankees. If you want to say they weren't good enough, that's bullshit and you know it. I'm not wasting more time talking about this, I can't believe it even got to this point. And I'm not even an A's fan, I'm a Jays fan and have said how it was luck that we won the series twice in a row. And that was with only 2 rounds in the palyoffs... yeah the A's suck because they could ONLY make it to game 5 against the Yankees who have 2 players making the same amountof money as their entire team... it's bullshit and you know it.
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Postby RynMan » Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:33 am

Phatferd wrote:Its not the same sample, so you can't use it. Its a fact.


What the hell are you talking about?
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Postby RynMan » Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:36 am

LBJackal wrote:Oakland made it to the playoffs 4 years in a row with a shitty payroll. I don't care how they had so few fans, I'm not their fan anyway, the point is they were very good with very little money. The point is they have the best record other than the Yankees the past 5 years. Jesus Christ, if you're gonna argue something, dont say they aren't a good team. How hard is it to realize that. This isn't about beane, or whatevbr the f$^*&^$ you want it to be about. They were better than any team over the past 5 years other than the $200M friggin Yankees. If you want to say they weren't good enough, that's bullshit and you know it. I'm not wasting more time talking about this, I can't believe it even got to this point. And I'm not even an A's fan, I'm a Jays fan and have said how it was luck that we won the series twice in a row. And that was with only 2 rounds in the palyoffs... yeah the A's suck because they could ONLY make it to game 5 against the Yankees who have 2 players making the same amountof money as their entire team... it's bullshit and you know it.


hahaha. well said LBJ.
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