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Postby CubsFan7724 » Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:53 pm

BritSox wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:The trouble is that when the solution of a hard cap and revenue sharing comes up it is the union, the Yankees and the Sox who oppose it. That's why we blame them.


Well a cap is a bad idea. More revenue sharing, however, isn't, and is in the interests of the redsox.

Why is a cap a bad idea? Because your red sox would have to spend wisely instead of willy nilly? It clearly works in the NFL, makes it more competitive, and makes it more interesting. Theres a reason more people watch the NFL, and its because every team has a chance at the beginning of the year. Please don't tell me thats true in the MLB, because you know it isn't. Revenue sharing has done nothing and its time for more radical changes. Bring on the salary cap and put smart spending back to the forefront. Maybe then teams like Tampa Bay, Toronto, Pittsburgh, the Rockies, etc would have a chance for once.
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Postby Lofunzo » Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:56 pm

CubsFan7724 wrote:
BritSox wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:The trouble is that when the solution of a hard cap and revenue sharing comes up it is the union, the Yankees and the Sox who oppose it. That's why we blame them.


Well a cap is a bad idea. More revenue sharing, however, isn't, and is in the interests of the redsox.

Why is a cap a bad idea? Because your red sox would have to spend wisely instead of willy nilly? It clearly works in the NFL, makes it more competitive, and makes it more interesting. Theres a reason more people watch the NFL, and its because every team has a chance at the beginning of the year. Please don't tell me thats true in the MLB, because you know it isn't. Revenue sharing has done nothing and its time for more radical changes. Bring on the salary cap and put smart spending back to the forefront. Maybe then teams like Tampa Bay, Toronto, Pittsburgh, the Rockies, etc would have a chance for once.


Here we go. I was waiting for an NFL reference. :-° You cannnot compare the NFL to any other sport. Period. The NFL generates national revenues while the other sports, baseball included, generates regional revenues. There is no way that the Yankees will, or should for that matter, accept a system where they make the same amount of money as the Pirates or Royals.
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Postby BritSox » Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:08 pm

CubsFan7724 wrote:
BritSox wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:The trouble is that when the solution of a hard cap and revenue sharing comes up it is the union, the Yankees and the Sox who oppose it. That's why we blame them.


Well a cap is a bad idea. More revenue sharing, however, isn't, and is in the interests of the redsox.

Why is a cap a bad idea? Because your red sox would have to spend wisely instead of willy nilly? It clearly works in the NFL, makes it more competitive, and makes it more interesting. Theres a reason more people watch the NFL, and its because every team has a chance at the beginning of the year. Please don't tell me thats true in the MLB, because you know it isn't. Revenue sharing has done nothing and its time for more radical changes. Bring on the salary cap and put smart spending back to the forefront. Maybe then teams like Tampa Bay, Toronto, Pittsburgh, the Rockies, etc would have a chance for once.


Your Cubbies are hardly a poor, small market team. If you were well-run you should be able to spend as much as we do, if not more. A salary cap benefits only the owners. Can you honestly say the 49ers had a chance at the start of last season, or will have one at the start of the next. People still watch college football, and you can't claim everyone there starts with the same chance of winning.

Besides, think about it: a one in five chance of winning our division, one in 28 of winning it all IS better than we have done historically. Therefore, it's not self-interest: it's because it's right. The worst teams in football win a far lower proportion of their games than in baseball.


Besides, why should the Yankees only win the same amount as the Devil rays? They have at least twenty times the fans. Why is one D-Ray fan's happiness worth twenty times that of one Yankee? When a fan buys team merchandise, he likes to see that he is helping HIS team and not the ownership of the whole league in general. Salary capping is the communism of sports.
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Postby TheYanks04 » Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:36 pm

Wow, I guess you guys never heard of or are too cheap to buy DTV's MLB Xtra Innings package.

I do like the idea of contracting everyone else out of baseball though.
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Postby CubsFan7724 » Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:27 pm

Lofunzo wrote:
CubsFan7724 wrote:
BritSox wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:The trouble is that when the solution of a hard cap and revenue sharing comes up it is the union, the Yankees and the Sox who oppose it. That's why we blame them.


Well a cap is a bad idea. More revenue sharing, however, isn't, and is in the interests of the redsox.

Why is a cap a bad idea? Because your red sox would have to spend wisely instead of willy nilly? It clearly works in the NFL, makes it more competitive, and makes it more interesting. Theres a reason more people watch the NFL, and its because every team has a chance at the beginning of the year. Please don't tell me thats true in the MLB, because you know it isn't. Revenue sharing has done nothing and its time for more radical changes. Bring on the salary cap and put smart spending back to the forefront. Maybe then teams like Tampa Bay, Toronto, Pittsburgh, the Rockies, etc would have a chance for once.


Here we go. I was waiting for an NFL reference. :-° You cannnot compare the NFL to any other sport. Period. The NFL generates national revenues while the other sports, baseball included, generates regional revenues. There is no way that the Yankees will, or should for that matter, accept a system where they make the same amount of money as the Pirates or Royals.

Anyone else notice the only people who don't want a cap are usually Red Sox or Yankee fans? Wonder why? And Brit, I don't remember saying one word about the Cubs being a small market team. They are probably the 3rd largests, after New York and LA.
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Postby Tavish » Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:30 pm

Lofunzo wrote:Here we go. I was waiting for an NFL reference. :-° You cannnot compare the NFL to any other sport. Period. The NFL generates national revenues while the other sports, baseball included, generates regional revenues.


Sure you can compare football to other sports. It is the same as every other major US team sport in that all the owners are in a limited partnership where they make no revenue without the other owners. The way in which revenue is divided is different, but that has no effect on why the current salary structure is inadequete.

There is no way that the Yankees will, or should for that matter, accept a system where they make the same amount of money as the Pirates or Royals.

You are right, there is no reason that the Yankees should or ever would accept a system where they would be limited to make as much money as the small market team. No one really cares in the end how much money the Yankees make, its about how much they spend.
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Postby BritSox » Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:07 pm

Let's assume we set a salary cap. Where? If you put it at $100mil, it hurts only the Yanks consistently, the RedSox right now (although not necessarily forever, once the current bunch of wannabes clear off again), and potentially the mets, dodgers, and Cubs in the future.

If it's at what the poorest teams can afford, it's at thirty-forty million and the entire game's a joke. If you set it at, say, seventy, which seems fair, the poorest team would still have half the payroll of the richest, those who benefit most here are the likes of the Mariners rather than Pittsburgh who still can't compete unless they are very well run, which is the case now. All it means is owners getting richer.

And Cubbie, my repeated point here is that the sox gain as much as they lose from having themselves capped in having the Yanks capped. Whereas your own team already outspends everyone else in their division and most in the league. Therefore, your team have more to lose from a cap, so stop accusing me of self-interest.
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Postby Mookie4ever » Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:28 pm

BritSox wrote:Let's assume we set a salary cap. Where? If you put it at $100mil, it hurts only the Yanks consistently, the RedSox right now (although not necessarily forever, once the current bunch of wannabes clear off again), and potentially the mets, dodgers, and Cubs in the future.

If it's at what the poorest teams can afford, it's at thirty-forty million and the entire game's a joke. If you set it at, say, seventy, which seems fair, the poorest team would still have half the payroll of the richest, those who benefit most here are the likes of the Mariners rather than Pittsburgh who still can't compete unless they are very well run, which is the case now. All it means is owners getting richer.

And Cubbie, my repeated point here is that the sox gain as much as they lose from having themselves capped in having the Yanks capped. Whereas your own team already outspends everyone else in their division and most in the league. Therefore, your team have more to lose from a cap, so stop accusing me of self-interest.


That's why the best systems have a salary cap and revenue sharing. The cap is high enough to please the players and the revenue sharing makes the high market teams support the payrolls of the Milwakees and KCs of the league.

The cap is tied to revenue but to appease the Sox and Yanks it is strictly baseball (gate and merchandise) revenue. Leaving the big guys to continue to make their fortunes on their cable broadcasting.

This would work but would be rejected by the players because it would mean an end to ridiculous out of the world contracts and it would limit the money that the Yanks and Sox could make. Small market teams will have to start to go bankrupt before a reasonable system forced on the Yanks and Sox (the players will be in favour of it by then because they will be losing jobs due to team closures).
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Postby BritSox » Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:40 pm

Hang on, if the players' unions agree, surely the Yanks and Sox can just be outvoted?
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Postby Lofunzo » Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:44 pm

TheYanks04 wrote:Wow, I guess you guys never heard of or are too cheap to buy DTV's MLB Xtra Innings package.

I do like the idea of contracting everyone else out of baseball though.


That is offered through pretty much all cable companies as well as all of the satellite companies but apparently, not everyone has the disposable income of you. ;-7

CubsFan7724 wrote:Anyone else notice the only people who don't want a cap are usually Red Sox or Yankee fans? Wonder why? And Brit, I don't remember saying one word about the Cubs being a small market team. They are probably the 3rd largests, after New York and LA.


Nice to use an ignorant stereotype. :-t Your team has a ton of $$ yet they don't spend it. Blame them and not the Yankees. Even blame the league or the MLBPA. Sounds a bit like sour grapes to me.

Let me ask you a question.......Let's say that you bought a company for $10M and built it up to be worth close to $1B, would you be cool if all of the other similar companies wanted to take a lot of money from you?? Also, let's say that you have been contributing money to them for years and they are still substandard, would you be fine with being asked to give them a lot more money??

I anxiously await your response.

Tavish wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:Here we go. I was waiting for an NFL reference. :-° You cannnot compare the NFL to any other sport. Period. The NFL generates national revenues while the other sports, baseball included, generates regional revenues.


Sure you can compare football to other sports. It is the same as every other major US team sport in that all the owners are in a limited partnership where they make no revenue without the other owners. The way in which revenue is divided is different, but that has no effect on why the current salary structure is inadequete.


This wouldn't be an issue if the teams that got money spent it at all or even in a smart way. If they don't want to put in the extra effort, blaming the Yankees or the Red Sox is a terrible excuse. These teams could send scouts to different areas but they don't. If the Yankees send 2 scouts somewhere, they could send 4 but they don't. Their owners are happier just crying poverty and pocketing the luxury tax money that they receive. I should also say that these teams also need the Yankees. There are quite a few teams in the league that draw 20K+ fans every time the Yankees come to town. That also can't be overlooked. :-?

I reiterate that there is no way correctly compare the NFL to any other sport. You want to bring up that they need the competition?? What's next?? That they all wear uniforms so they are the same?? The NFL generates national revenues. Whatever the TV deal is, they split it equally. The Yankees should not be penalized financially because they were smart enough to start up their own TV network or because they have the most fans or are the most profitable. Any team could do it. It just wouldn't be nearly as profitable. They would still make money, though.

I am all for some sort of luxury tax. I am also all for putting a salary floor out there for teams to match. People always look at the fact that the Yankees are signing 5 FA's an offseason but if there were more than a handful of teams that would spend any money, it wouldn't be that way.

I want to stress something else as well.......I don't particularly like how the league is in that you have 1 team soaking up a ton of payroll, a few others soaking up a huge amount, and then a bunch of bottom feeders but remember this. The Yankees are well within their rights to do what they are doing. Before you fire insults at the Yankees and their fans, remember that the fans are just rooting for the team. They don't sign the checks, sign the players, or hit and field the ball. The Yankees also aren't the problem. The problem is a spineless commissioner and a player's association that has 10X the power of the commissioner. No other league is like that. All that the MLBPA sees is dollar signs. A cap means less money in their eyes.
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