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Postby Twinskies » Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:56 am

HOOTIE wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
beltrans_boy wrote:
HOOTIE wrote:
TheRawDAWG wrote:Well now we are at the half way mark and it looks to me like Halladay is taking it and hiding from the rest of the pack. Colon and Garland are probably the next best candidates and Halladay's numbers crush them.


Halladay isn't crushing Buehrle. In fact, Mark has a good a case for cy as Roy.


Buehrle is my choice. Halladay's been good, but Buehrle has just been that much better...

;-D


I emphatically disagree with this statement.

First of all, Mark Buehrle blew up today allowing 14 hits, 7 runs (4 earned) with only 3 strikeouts for the loss, and this was agaisnt a presumably weak hitting team in the Oakland A's.

He pushed his era up to 2.58, and his record now stands at 10-2.
His whip is now 1.11 with 88 ks.

In comparence with Roy Halladay, every single one of those stats is much worse with the exception of win percentage.

Halladay's era now stands at 2.33, with a record of 12-4. His whip is a crazy .94, with 104 ks.

At mid-season right now, there should be no question as to who is the 1st half Cy Young winner.

The answer: Roy Halladay.



A 2.58 era is MUCH worse then 2.33? They were about even in era before today's games. Mark gave up 4 to Roy's 1. You are talking 3 runs in 3 months. 104 K's versus 88 is MUCH worse?

The one poster said Halladay crushes everyone. Simply not true. Roy might have a slight edge after today, but Mark is still close.

Both have 13 QS, with Mark having 1 less game. Mark was ahead in Win Shares before today. They are likely tied, or Roy ahead by 1 after today. Roy has a slight edge in VORP. The DIPS era are about even.


I think you have to take each player's track record into consideration as well. We're talking about who will win the Cy Young at the END of the year. We all know that Halladay has the stuff to continue pitching at a high level. Buerhle may be close to him right now, but his previous numbers, along with his recent poor outing could signal that he is beginning to fade going into the second half. At this point I still believe its Halladay and then Santana.
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Postby TheRawDAWG » Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:42 pm

Halladay, IS running away with it. Buerle (who I'n sorry but did forget) is going the opposite way. Halladay had a much worse start and over the last 2 months has been totally lights out. Take away the first month of the season and see who's going where? Buerle has still been good but not as good as the first month....and not even close to as good as Halladay. And given the track records over the last 3 years I'll take Halladay all the way to the bank (or Cy as it may be). I agree that Santana will be the only one that may make a push for it. and only because of the second half he put together last year. You can't count him out.

But as of right now, Halladay HANDS DOWN takes this. If given the vote he should win with a unanimous decision.

Before you mention Halladay from last season remember he had pitched over 500 Innings the previous 2 years. He is not the same pitcher from last season. This is the real Halladay.
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Postby CubsFan7724 » Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:02 pm

blankman wrote:
revenge_of_the_cards wrote:johan santanta is up there too. if he kept his era down, hed be the guy


Yeah, if he kept his ERA down over an entire point. ;-7 He's no where near Halladay or Buehrle at this point.

His ERA is so high because of poor umping. Have you seen his peripheal numbers? K/9, WHIP, K/BB, BAA? Absolutely sick. His ERA is way above what it should be. Don't be surprised when he comes back and gives Halladay or Buerhle a run for their money. Also for Buehrle doubters, he has a career ERA under 3 on the road, but the Cell really hurts him. This year I believe its the opposite though.
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Postby Lime » Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:42 pm

Inning Pitched/Workhorsing
Halladay 139
Buehrle 129

Wins
Halladay 12
Buehrle 10

Complete Games
Halladay 5
Buehrle 2

Shutouts
Halladay 2
Buehrle 1

Strikeouts Per 9 Innings
Halladay 6.73
Buehrle 5.72

Strikeout to Walk Ratio
Halladay 5.78
Buehrle 4.32

ERA
Halladay 2.33
Buehrle 2.58

WHIP
Halladay 0.94
Buehrle 1.11

Doc has also faced much more difficult competition, has had less home starts while more road starts than Buehrle, and he doesn't play for a team that makes his record out to be better than it should be, infact Doc could easily be 14-3.

It's extremely uneducated to say that Buehrle has been a better pitcher than Halladay to this point.
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Postby HOOTIE » Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:43 pm

Lime wrote:It's extremely uneducated to say that Buehrle has been a better pitcher than Halladay to this point.


Until their last start, they were even in era, and Mark had 1 more win share. Roy has 17 games to Marks 16. Roy pulled ahead the last start with Buehrle having a bad game. Roy has a slight edge as of now. It's uneducated for someone to say it's Halladay in a runaway as we speak. Mark has 1 fewer start, but as many QS. The era difference is only 3 runs over 3 months. Roy has been a tad better, but it's not much, as many are saying. Btw, neither guy is getting alot of run support.

Buehrle ranks 89th with 3.98 per 9,
Halladay ranks 93rd with 3.82 per 9.
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Postby mweir145 » Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:26 am

I don't believe I ever said that Halladay was running away with this. :-?

But he is easily the front runner, as the stats show.
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Postby The_Met_Threat » Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:49 am

id agree with mweir145, halladay is ahead of buherle, but in my opinion far ahead, i see a really major stat as ground ball to fly out ratio. i look at this lot as it shows a pitchers ability to get out an inning.

halladay=2.61
buherle= 1.32

nuff said
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Postby HOOTIE » Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:36 am

mweir145 wrote:I don't believe I ever said that Halladay was running away with this. :-?

But he is easily the front runner, as the stats show.


I didn't name names, but quite a few in thread say Halladay easy.
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Postby baseballnewb » Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:41 am

This just shows why ERA is a horrible way to judge a pitcher, there are way too many factors that go into it that have nothing to do with how a pitcher pitched. Halladay all the way for AL cy young right now, though I'm willing to bet Santana or RJ end up with it, its almost always the pitcher who has an electric second half and not the guy who had a great first half.
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Postby Kingctb27 » Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:45 am

CubsFan7724 wrote:
blankman wrote:
revenge_of_the_cards wrote:johan santanta is up there too. if he kept his era down, hed be the guy


Yeah, if he kept his ERA down over an entire point. ;-7 He's no where near Halladay or Buehrle at this point.

His ERA is so high because of poor umping. Have you seen his peripheal numbers? K/9, WHIP, K/BB, BAA? Absolutely sick. His ERA is way above what it should be. Don't be surprised when he comes back and gives Halladay or Buerhle a run for their money. Also for Buehrle doubters, he has a career ERA under 3 on the road, but the Cell really hurts him. This year I believe its the opposite though.

Blank y do you continue to bash Johan? Did you take your boy RJ before him this year or what? I'm with Cubs fan on this one as well. He's simply not getting the Strike zone that the likes of Halladay and Pedro are getting. Come the end of September you can bet your bottom dollar that he'll be in the race for this thing.
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