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RE: Jose Mesa - IMPORTANT to me

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Will Jose Mesa notch 30 saves this year?

Yes, he will get at least 30 saves.
44
76%
No, he will record under 30 saves.
14
24%
 
Total votes : 58

Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:51 am

I guess Im stupid enough to believe in the myth of closer mentality. ;-7

Id rather have Mesa over Mota given the pricetags. I know his %s hurt, but Id rather put my fortune in a closer that has converted over 40 save opps in 3 of the last 4 yrs than a guy who has converted 3 of 7. :-?
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Postby daullaz » Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:43 am

CubsFan7724 wrote:Nathan and Cordero go in the 5th-6th round. You said take Buerhle, Maddux, or Odalis Perez there. Thats WAY too early for those guys, Perez will probably be there in the 10th, and Buehrle and Maddux in the low teens rounds.


I know. I was going to use those guys as an example, but when I start crunching numbers, I found the premier closer were reated even higher than I had originally thought. I forgot to change the names in the post when I came back to write it. In the example I use, however, I correct that.
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Postby daullaz » Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:44 am

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:I guess Im stupid enough to believe in the myth of closer mentality. ;-7

Id rather have Mesa over Mota given the pricetags. I know his %s hurt, but Id rather put my fortune in a closer that has converted over 40 save opps in 3 of the last 4 yrs than a guy who has converted 3 of 7. :-?


God bless you Cornbread. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks Mesa has some value.
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Postby Mercer Boy » Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:28 pm

With the way the Pirates are playing (read "really really bad" :-B ), Mesa is not going to lose his job...if he stays with the team. It seems as though Mesa does very well when he is not pressured to do so. As soon as the team he is on shows promise, he starts choking.

If the Pirates are 30-50 at the halfway mark, I bet Mesa will have saved 20-23 of those games. Playoff-bound teams will come calling for him, and the Pirates will once again look at their options. However, I bet he stays here since he has done well here and (even more importantly) is not costing us a lot of money. As soon as a guy like Gonzalez comes in and starts saving games, he will demand a higher salary, and the Pirates won't give it to him because they are cheap. That will make them want to keep Mesa for another year.

After what I have seen/heard over the first two weeks of the season, I see the Pirates losing a lot of games...probably more than last year. The offense is terrible, and even when the pitchers are having a good day it doesn't guarantee a victory. A really bad record/firing of the manager might force the Pirates to trade Mesa, but they sure as heck won't want to. He's going to have a high ERA and WHIP, but he will get you saves. If you want saves, he's your man, and as long as you can stomach the other problems, he'll do well for you.
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Postby raiders_umpire » Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:22 pm

mesa will get you at least 30 saves and probably closer to 40.... and dont let his "bad" numbers fool you,,, he has developed a bad rep over the years but his numbers are not that bad.... 3 of the last 4 years his era has been 3.25, 2.97, and 2.34..... those era numbers will not bring down anybodys team era in any league..... his whip has been the only thing that is less than average with a 1.41 last year.... but yea i would take 40 saves, a 1.41 whip and a 3.25 era any time in the 20th round of a draft...... ;-D ;-D
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Postby quicksilver8 » Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:24 pm

I think it is all relative to where you can get him in the draft and if the rest of your pitching staff can absorb a small (sometimes not so small) hit to era and whip. If you have Schmidt and Zambrano anchoring your staff, by all means, scoop up Mesa in the later rounds when everyone is bad mouthing him. Saves are saves.
If your staff is anchored by a couple of mid tier guys, Mesa might hurt you. If you already have a couple of good closers, why risk Mesa.

It's all relative.
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Postby bleach168 » Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:41 pm

quicksilver8 wrote:I think it is all relative to where you can get him in the draft and if the rest of your pitching staff can absorb a small (sometimes not so small) hit to era and whip. If you have Schmidt and Zambrano anchoring your staff, by all means, scoop up Mesa in the later rounds when everyone is bad mouthing him. Saves are saves.
If your staff is anchored by a couple of mid tier guys, Mesa might hurt you. If you already have a couple of good closers, why risk Mesa.

It's all relative.


Agree.
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Postby Pedantic » Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:55 pm

I will gladly take Mesa given the price tag. The only way his ERA will "kill" your team's ERA is if he explodes to 5.00+. I don't see that happening, not with the way he's pitched thus far. A lot of starters will have worse numbers than Mesa, yet I don't hear anyone saying they're killing their team, even if they might be. Actually, with the solid relief a lot of the closers have been providing, Mesa is starting to look like Gagne. ;-7

Saves are saves, and Mesa is picking them up with decent numbers to boot. That's more than you can say for a lot of the pitchers people are hanging onto. In both of the leagues that I have Mesa in, I'm near the top in saves. I'm not complaining. ;-D

Oh, and given the popular opinion regarding Mesa, I can't see him losing his job to go be a setup man elsewhere. What playoff-bound team would want him in the late-innings mix? ;-) Here's to dirt-cheap saves! ;-D
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Postby ThunderSnarfer » Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:04 pm

Id be unphased by pressure if I knew that someone somewhere would still want a closer that:
A) blows more opportunities than a closer should be allowed to before losing his job
B) allows far too many baserunners
C) Lets in far too many runs
D) Doenst even have electric stuff anymore

so yeah, unphased by the pressure of needing to perform at ones JOB, makes mesa a steal.

Welcome to ERA and WHIP hell. All aboard the mesa train....
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Postby Pedantic » Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:22 pm

ThunderSnarfer wrote:Id be unphased by pressure if I knew that someone somewhere would still want a closer that:
A) blows more opportunities than a closer should be allowed to before losing his job
B) allows far too many baserunners
C) Lets in far too many runs
D) Doenst even have electric stuff anymore

so yeah, unphased by the pressure of needing to perform at ones JOB, makes mesa a steal.

Welcome to ERA and WHIP hell. All aboard the mesa train....


Yeah, his 3.00 ERA and 1.33 WHIP are really killing my teams so far. Ohhh, I don't know if I can take the torture he brings to my teams any longer. Maybe I should just drop him like a hot potato. ;-7
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