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Postby Yoda » Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:39 pm

davidmarver wrote:You havn't shown me anything other than "he's just gone deep". By the way, Geoff Blum went deep off Kerry Wood...doesn't mean he's worth anything.

The reason players have 'sophmore slumps' is because pitchers catch up to them and learn how to pitch to them. The players don't actually lose any skill.

VMart had one good year when he was in the right league for his age. I'd be surprised if he repeats last years numbers. I think .280, 20 homeruns, 85 rbi are realistic numbers. Granted, they are good numbers, but I don't think he has a good enough track record against the type of talent he's facing to continue his numbers from last year.


OK we need to set something straight. VMart was not a rookie in 04. So your 'sophomore jinx' theory or 'pitchers are catching up to him' theory are completely fabricated.

Look at his minor league numbers and compare them to what he did in 04 in the majors. As DK pointed out earlier, MLE's tell a lot more than you think. People who are arguing against VMart at this point are simply nitpicking. He is a disciplined hitter with a lot of power at his age at his position. There is A LOT to like about the kid.
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Postby Yoda » Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:41 pm

davidmarver wrote:You havn't shown me anything other than "he's just gone deep".


Really, I haven't? Did you happen to miss the 10 posts I made in this thread? If you are going to argue, READ THE THREAD FIRST. THanks.
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Postby Yoda » Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:45 pm

d18Mike wrote:I like V-Mart, but I have a steadfast policy of not drafting ROYs and first full year phemons. It has served me well. People simply overpay for them based on incomplete tracks records. Sure, I've probably lost out on some opportunties, but by and large it has served me well.


Not all players are created equal. You have to pick the right ones. That is why we play this game. You ahve to be flexible and identify who is for real and who is not.
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Postby davidmarver » Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:47 pm

Yoda wrote:
davidmarver wrote:You havn't shown me anything other than "he's just gone deep". By the way, Geoff Blum went deep off Kerry Wood...doesn't mean he's worth anything.

The reason players have 'sophmore slumps' is because pitchers catch up to them and learn how to pitch to them. The players don't actually lose any skill.

VMart had one good year when he was in the right league for his age. I'd be surprised if he repeats last years numbers. I think .280, 20 homeruns, 85 rbi are realistic numbers. Granted, they are good numbers, but I don't think he has a good enough track record against the type of talent he's facing to continue his numbers from last year.


OK we need to set something straight. VMart was not a rookie in 04. So your 'sophomore jinx' theory or 'pitchers are catching up to him' theory are completely fabricated.

Look at his minor league numbers and compare them to what he did in 04 in the majors. As DK pointed out earlier, MLE's tell a lot more than you think. People who are arguing against VMart at this point are simply nitpicking. He is a disciplined hitter with a lot of power at his age at his position. There is A LOT to like about the kid.


159 at bats is hardly enough to count as a complete year, so yes there is a good possibility that pitchers will figure the guy out. Look, nowhere did I say VMart wasn't going to be good. I said his minor league numbers aren't as encouraging as you think...and they aren't. He played out of his element nearly every season and very little can be deciphered from hitting pitchers who aren't developed as fully as VMart was at the same time.

I have him on one of my teams (VMart), but I'm being realistic with my expectations. I don't expect him to improve on last years numbers.

Martinez still doesn't call that great of a game behind the plate and his arm is certainly lackluster. If he has room to improve, those are the two areas I expect him to improve the most; not offensively.
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Postby Yoda » Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:53 pm

davidmarver wrote:
Yoda wrote:
davidmarver wrote:You havn't shown me anything other than "he's just gone deep". By the way, Geoff Blum went deep off Kerry Wood...doesn't mean he's worth anything.

The reason players have 'sophmore slumps' is because pitchers catch up to them and learn how to pitch to them. The players don't actually lose any skill.

VMart had one good year when he was in the right league for his age. I'd be surprised if he repeats last years numbers. I think .280, 20 homeruns, 85 rbi are realistic numbers. Granted, they are good numbers, but I don't think he has a good enough track record against the type of talent he's facing to continue his numbers from last year.


OK we need to set something straight. VMart was not a rookie in 04. So your 'sophomore jinx' theory or 'pitchers are catching up to him' theory are completely fabricated.

Look at his minor league numbers and compare them to what he did in 04 in the majors. As DK pointed out earlier, MLE's tell a lot more than you think. People who are arguing against VMart at this point are simply nitpicking. He is a disciplined hitter with a lot of power at his age at his position. There is A LOT to like about the kid.


159 at bats is hardly enough to count as a complete year, so yes there is a good possibility that pitchers will figure the guy out. Look, nowhere did I say VMart wasn't going to be good. I said his minor league numbers aren't as encouraging as you think...and they aren't. He played out of his element nearly every season and very little can be deciphered from hitting pitchers who aren't developed as fully as VMart was at the same time.

I have him on one of my teams (VMart), but I'm being realistic with my expectations. I don't expect him to improve on last years numbers.

Martinez still doesn't call that great of a game behind the plate and his arm is certainly lackluster. If he has room to improve, those are the two areas I expect him to improve the most; not offensively.


So what you are saying is that when he was hitting cleanup for majority of the season in 04, that pitchers didn't pay attention or try to figure him out?

The arguments against him are pretty weak. He had 60/69 BB/K, 38(!) 2B, 23 HR, near .851 OPS hitting clean up in his FIRST FULL SEAON. I just don't get it.
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