what to make out of bedards outing? - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

what to make out of bedards outing?

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Postby Conner » Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:22 pm

New Zealand Fan wrote:
Conner wrote:
New Zealand Fan wrote:
Pedantic wrote:
Last season was his first season back from Tommy John surgery. Don't base your entire assessment on those numbers.


:-? Last season was his first season in the majors. Don't get carried away with what he did in the minors.


Minor league statistics mean a lot more than you think...


Yeah just ask Pods


I don't know Pods, so i probably won't get the chance to ask him...


The fact of the matter is...the past backs me up way more than it backs you up.

You undervalue minor laugue experience way too much. It doesn't just matter....It matters a lot.
Conner
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor


Posts: 760
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby NZF » Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:22 pm

slomo007 wrote:
Pedantic wrote:He posted a 3.54 K/BB ratio in the minors. He might not do that in the majors, but I sure don't think he's going to be as "bad" as he was last year. The fact remains that he was coming off of TJ surgery and that pitchers are not the same in the first year back.


;-D

Don't give up on him yet. He may or may not break out, but it's not like he got lit up tonight. You will regret it all year if he breaks out....on someone else's roster.


I've got him in Bleach's 16 team league and I certainly won't be giving up on him but no way he starts every 5 days for me either.

He's not good enough for a permanent spot on anyone's roster if you're playing in a league with less than 14 teams although he very well could have a decent season but he's way overhyped for some reason.

Put it this way, you guys say he had a decent enough start tonite. Well call it what you want but giving up 8 hits in 5 innings to a very ordinary offense is not decent in my eyes.
When you're right no one remembers, when you're wrong no one forgets - NZF
NZF
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Mock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 4795
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Sitting in the Cake Tin enjoying a cold Speights

Postby LBJackal » Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:40 pm

Conner wrote:
New Zealand Fan wrote:
Conner wrote:
How is he "Very lucky to get out of that game without a loss."?

He gave up 1 run in 5 innings.

He was pretty unlucky to not be in line for a win, with that offense behind him...


The Rays left 12 guys on base in the first two innings alone. That's not altogether good pitching and poor hitting, there's a large degree of luck in there as well.

With 8 hits and 2 walks in just 5 innings of work he was damn lucky to only give up 1 ER.


1 run in 5 innings. That's all that matters, in the end.

No matter what...it wasn't a terrible outing


Well, I'm afraid not. He was lucky he only gave up 1 run. If he pitches like that all season he'll have horrible numbers. So in the end... it doesn't matter that he only gave up 1 run.

2 BB in 5 IP isn't so bad, but it's not that good either. And neither is 3 K's. His first outing; 5 K's and 1 BB in 7 IP. That's a very good game. A huge differenc ein performance. yet he only gave up one run in each. You have to look past ER.
Image

"Jack, will you call me, if you're able?"

"I've got your phone number written, in the back of my Bible."
LBJackal
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Pick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 9196
Joined: 1 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The Hotel Yorba

Postby Conner » Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:46 pm

LBJackal wrote:
Conner wrote:
New Zealand Fan wrote:
Conner wrote:
How is he "Very lucky to get out of that game without a loss."?

He gave up 1 run in 5 innings.

He was pretty unlucky to not be in line for a win, with that offense behind him...


The Rays left 12 guys on base in the first two innings alone. That's not altogether good pitching and poor hitting, there's a large degree of luck in there as well.

With 8 hits and 2 walks in just 5 innings of work he was damn lucky to only give up 1 ER.


1 run in 5 innings. That's all that matters, in the end.

No matter what...it wasn't a terrible outing


Well, I'm afraid not. He was lucky he only gave up 1 run. If he pitches like that all season he'll have horrible numbers. So in the end... it doesn't matter that he only gave up 1 run.

2 BB in 5 IP isn't so bad, but it's not that good either. And neither is 3 K's. His first outing; 5 K's and 1 BB in 7 IP. That's a very good game. A huge differenc ein performance. yet he only gave up one run in each. You have to look past ER.


Why would you quote me, but leave out the rest of what I said?

"No matter what...it wasn't a terrible outing...certainly not something that should change anyone's opinion about him, if you thought he'd be good this season."

I didn't say it was a good performance...and yes, if he pitches that way all year, the results will likely be worse...

But it absolutely wasn't so bad, that you should change your opinion about him, based on this one game.
Conner
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor


Posts: 760
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby Pedantic » Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:13 am

LBJackal wrote:
Conner wrote:
New Zealand Fan wrote:
Conner wrote:
How is he "Very lucky to get out of that game without a loss."?

He gave up 1 run in 5 innings.

He was pretty unlucky to not be in line for a win, with that offense behind him...


The Rays left 12 guys on base in the first two innings alone. That's not altogether good pitching and poor hitting, there's a large degree of luck in there as well.

With 8 hits and 2 walks in just 5 innings of work he was damn lucky to only give up 1 ER.


1 run in 5 innings. That's all that matters, in the end.

No matter what...it wasn't a terrible outing


Well, I'm afraid not. He was lucky he only gave up 1 run. If he pitches like that all season he'll have horrible numbers. So in the end... it doesn't matter that he only gave up 1 run.

2 BB in 5 IP isn't so bad, but it's not that good either. And neither is 3 K's. His first outing; 5 K's and 1 BB in 7 IP. That's a very good game. A huge differenc ein performance. yet he only gave up one run in each. You have to look past ER.


It's true that he should have given up more runs tonight. However, looking at things like K/9 and K/BB is only useful when you're looking at a fairly large amount of data. Every pitcher is going to have games where his peripheral numbers aren't "sound". Hell, look at Blanton's game tonight. He struck out only three in six innings while walking two and (gasp) only gave up one run. Throw him away, he's garbage!

No one expects one-run outings from Bedard the rest of the way. But if you look at his overall season so far, he has eight K's in twelve innings with only three walks. Not too shabby, says I. It's just ludicrous to look at a single outing and try to make a case out of it. Just because he couldn't pull out a two K's per BB ratio tonight doesn't mean that his entire season is now doomed.
Image
Pedantic
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicEagle EyeCafe Musketeer
Posts: 6725
Joined: 5 Dec 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Funny movie quote that everyone knows

Postby baseballnewb » Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:33 am

Sign of a good pitcher is one that is either so consistant they rarely have off games or one that gets it done even when they don't have their best stuff. If you really believe in him take comfort in the fact that he got out of the jam even when he did not have his best stuff. If you don't believe in him well you don't believe in him.
baseballnewb
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor


Posts: 629
Joined: 8 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:46 am

Pedantic wrote:
LBJackal wrote:
Conner wrote:
New Zealand Fan wrote:
Conner wrote:
How is he "Very lucky to get out of that game without a loss."?

He gave up 1 run in 5 innings.

He was pretty unlucky to not be in line for a win, with that offense behind him...


The Rays left 12 guys on base in the first two innings alone. That's not altogether good pitching and poor hitting, there's a large degree of luck in there as well.

With 8 hits and 2 walks in just 5 innings of work he was damn lucky to only give up 1 ER.


1 run in 5 innings. That's all that matters, in the end.

No matter what...it wasn't a terrible outing


Well, I'm afraid not. He was lucky he only gave up 1 run. If he pitches like that all season he'll have horrible numbers. So in the end... it doesn't matter that he only gave up 1 run.

2 BB in 5 IP isn't so bad, but it's not that good either. And neither is 3 K's. His first outing; 5 K's and 1 BB in 7 IP. That's a very good game. A huge differenc ein performance. yet he only gave up one run in each. You have to look past ER.


It's true that he should have given up more runs tonight. However, looking at things like K/9 and K/BB is only useful when you're looking at a fairly large amount of data. Every pitcher is going to have games where his peripheral numbers aren't "sound". Hell, look at Blanton's game tonight. He struck out only three in six innings while walking two and (gasp) only gave up one run. Throw him away, he's garbage!

No one expects one-run outings from Bedard the rest of the way. But if you look at his overall season so far, he has eight K's in twelve innings with only three walks. Not too shabby, says I. It's just ludicrous to look at a single outing and try to make a case out of it. Just because he couldn't pull out a two K's per BB ratio tonight doesn't mean that his entire season is now doomed.


I see both points of view, but Im pretty sure LBJ was just commenting on the line from Conner regarding 1 run in 5 innings is all that matterred. Clearly thats incorrect when one is trying to forecast. He was lucky to only let in 1 run - thats the argument.
Image
Cornbread Maxwell
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertPick 3 ChampionSweet 16 Survivor
Posts: 5694
Joined: 7 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Football

Postby Darkie Satchels » Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:03 am

He has yet to have a bad outing so I will keep him in my roster and start him without hesitation. He kept the ball to the ground and got some K's in the process. Everyone wants the flashy pitcher but forgets the fundamentals of pitching.

Bedard is a solid player who is going to have a good year. Period.
Image

Great indie Music Website: http://www.pensatos.com
Darkie Satchels
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar

Posts: 624
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Bleacher Bum

Postby tms298 » Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:38 am

I was watching the game (while doing other stuff so it didn't have my full attention) but I remember at least a couple of the hits being really cheap bloopers over the infield. He wasn't getting very hard when I was watching.
tms298
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar

Posts: 614
(Past Year: 4)
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Postby LBJackal » Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:54 am

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:
Pedantic wrote:
LBJackal wrote:
Conner wrote:
New Zealand Fan wrote:
Conner wrote:
How is he "Very lucky to get out of that game without a loss."?

He gave up 1 run in 5 innings.

He was pretty unlucky to not be in line for a win, with that offense behind him...


The Rays left 12 guys on base in the first two innings alone. That's not altogether good pitching and poor hitting, there's a large degree of luck in there as well.

With 8 hits and 2 walks in just 5 innings of work he was damn lucky to only give up 1 ER.


1 run in 5 innings. That's all that matters, in the end.

No matter what...it wasn't a terrible outing


Well, I'm afraid not. He was lucky he only gave up 1 run. If he pitches like that all season he'll have horrible numbers. So in the end... it doesn't matter that he only gave up 1 run.

2 BB in 5 IP isn't so bad, but it's not that good either. And neither is 3 K's. His first outing; 5 K's and 1 BB in 7 IP. That's a very good game. A huge differenc ein performance. yet he only gave up one run in each. You have to look past ER.


It's true that he should have given up more runs tonight. However, looking at things like K/9 and K/BB is only useful when you're looking at a fairly large amount of data. Every pitcher is going to have games where his peripheral numbers aren't "sound". Hell, look at Blanton's game tonight. He struck out only three in six innings while walking two and (gasp) only gave up one run. Throw him away, he's garbage!

No one expects one-run outings from Bedard the rest of the way. But if you look at his overall season so far, he has eight K's in twelve innings with only three walks. Not too shabby, says I. It's just ludicrous to look at a single outing and try to make a case out of it. Just because he couldn't pull out a two K's per BB ratio tonight doesn't mean that his entire season is now doomed.


I see both points of view, but Im pretty sure LBJ was just commenting on the line from Conner regarding 1 run in 5 innings is all that matterred. Clearly thats incorrect when one is trying to forecast. He was lucky to only let in 1 run - thats the argument.


Yeah I'm not saying that this one game is a reason to toss Bedard to the curb. I have him on a few teams hoping for good things. But for people looking at this game as a sign of good things to come, I wouldn't say it is. It doesn't mean he's doomed either, it really doens't mean much either way because like you said, it's one game. And overall he's been good. But he got lucky last time out is all I'm saying. A few of thoe starts in a row against not-so-good offenses and maybe you'd think twice about starting him in his next game despite the fact he onyl allowed 1 ER in a couple games in a row. I don't usually do that kind of micromanaging... but some people do, and looking at trends of K's and BB's would be more important than looking at how many ER he gave up.
Image

"Jack, will you call me, if you're able?"

"I've got your phone number written, in the back of my Bible."
LBJackal
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Pick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 9196
Joined: 1 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The Hotel Yorba

PreviousNext

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Friday, Sep. 19
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

LA Dodgers at Chi Cubs
(2:20 pm)
Boston at Baltimore
(7:05 pm)
Toronto at NY Yankees
(7:05 pm)
Milwaukee at Pittsburgh
(7:05 pm)
Washington at Miami
(7:10 pm)
indoors
Chi White Sox at Tampa Bay
(7:10 pm)
indoors
NY Mets at Atlanta
(7:35 pm)
Cleveland at Minnesota
(8:10 pm)
Detroit at Kansas City
(8:10 pm)
Seattle at Houston
(8:10 pm)
Arizona at Colorado
(8:10 pm)
Cincinnati at St. Louis
(8:15 pm)
Philadelphia at Oakland
(9:35 pm)
Texas at LA Angels
(10:05 pm)
San Francisco at San Diego
(10:10 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact