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Postby donny23 » Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:10 pm

slomo007 wrote:Let me guess, you own Zito on multiple teams?

There is no reason whatsoever to be optimistic on him. He has proven for well over a year that his curve is not what it used to be....either he's not throwing it as well, or the hitters are figuring it out. Either way, there is nothing leading me to believe he's going to rebound. To each his own though, good luck with it. At the very least, stash him on your bench, but don't start him. I actually have him on my bench in one league, but one more bad start and he's being cut completely.


Oh wait, they might be able to use someone on the Reds staff over him also :-D
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Postby slomo007 » Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:12 pm

donny23 wrote:
slomo007 wrote:Let me guess, you own Zito on multiple teams?

There is no reason whatsoever to be optimistic on him. He has proven for well over a year that his curve is not what it used to be....either he's not throwing it as well, or the hitters are figuring it out. Either way, there is nothing leading me to believe he's going to rebound. To each his own though, good luck with it. At the very least, stash him on your bench, but don't start him. I actually have him on my bench in one league, but one more bad start and he's being cut completely.


I own him in one league only and I'm completely worried about him. I'd be worried with a young guy like Bedard also though. My point is that you completely exagerate how bad he is. Guys have been overrating him for years and now I have a feeling the opposite will start happening. I have a feeling that your league isn't as deep as mine, because there is not one team that would have the depth on their bench to be able to put Zito on the bench (unless they stuck a guy like Pedro Astacio in there). It's all about perspective. You're probably in a mixed league (12 team or less). Mine is larger and not mixed.


Right, mixed 12 team leagues with 3 bench spots or less cannot afford to own Zito right now. In a 14 team league I'm in with 5 bench spots, of course he is owned, and should be. He is cuttable in most leagues however. Good luck with it...seriously. ;-D
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Postby stoner420 » Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:12 pm

donny23 wrote:
stoner420 wrote:Hey guys... i think we all need to stop complaining about this guy... i love him. and by that i mean, i love having him drafted by some idiot in rd 6. No cafe member should have drafted him this year. Shame on you. I love having a guy like zito in the league... everyone overrates him, and im very satisfied not having him(especially in pts leagues where k's are heavy).

basically zito is not god. zito is basically a spot starter at best. if u have him on your team, im sorry. trade him after his first good start if u can/he has one. ill take john thomson rd 21 over zito rd 6 thank you very much.


I agree with most of this. Zito is clearly overrated. I'd clearly take Thomson in Round 21 over Zito even much later than round 6. I am not in a points league and actually a 4X4 so I'm not worried about K's. I'd prefer not to have him on my team also actually but I extended him two years after his great 2003. That being said, I don't mind him being my end of staff starter. I'll admit I'm worried about him but I'd be just as worried having some young completely unproven pitcher.



yeah let me readdress this. I still would keep him on my team if u have him. hes not really worth dropping necessarily. the only reason that none of u should have him on your teams is that more than likely he will be picked waaaay too high in your league. if he falls past rd 18, or shows up on your waiver wire, fine. take him. but like i said, hes only a spot starter. hed be a fine #5 sp, and a great #6 sp who u could throw in every time he faces kc or something. but hes a guy that i wouldnt start 75% of the time...whereas im sure theres a dumb*ss in all of your leagues who has a huge boner for the guy... so let him have him.
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Postby slomo007 » Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:15 pm

stoner420 wrote:
donny23 wrote:
stoner420 wrote:Hey guys... i think we all need to stop complaining about this guy... i love him. and by that i mean, i love having him drafted by some idiot in rd 6. No cafe member should have drafted him this year. Shame on you. I love having a guy like zito in the league... everyone overrates him, and im very satisfied not having him(especially in pts leagues where k's are heavy).

basically zito is not god. zito is basically a spot starter at best. if u have him on your team, im sorry. trade him after his first good start if u can/he has one. ill take john thomson rd 21 over zito rd 6 thank you very much.


I agree with most of this. Zito is clearly overrated. I'd clearly take Thomson in Round 21 over Zito even much later than round 6. I am not in a points league and actually a 4X4 so I'm not worried about K's. I'd prefer not to have him on my team also actually but I extended him two years after his great 2003. That being said, I don't mind him being my end of staff starter. I'll admit I'm worried about him but I'd be just as worried having some young completely unproven pitcher.



yeah let me readdress this. I still would keep him on my team if u have him. hes not really worth dropping necessarily. the only reason that none of u should have him on your teams is that more than likely he will be picked waaaay too high in your league. if he falls past rd 18, or shows up on your waiver wire, fine. take him. but like i said, hes only a spot starter. hed be a fine #5 sp, and a great #6 sp who u could throw in every time he faces kc or something. but hes a guy that i wouldnt start 75% of the time...whereas im sure theres a dumb*ss in all of your leagues who has a huge boner for the guy... so let him have him.


A spot starter who allowed 8 runs to Tampa Bay? Who exactly can you start him against and not be worried?
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Postby donny23 » Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:20 pm

stoner420 wrote:
donny23 wrote:
stoner420 wrote:Hey guys... i think we all need to stop complaining about this guy... i love him. and by that i mean, i love having him drafted by some idiot in rd 6. No cafe member should have drafted him this year. Shame on you. I love having a guy like zito in the league... everyone overrates him, and im very satisfied not having him(especially in pts leagues where k's are heavy).

basically zito is not god. zito is basically a spot starter at best. if u have him on your team, im sorry. trade him after his first good start if u can/he has one. ill take john thomson rd 21 over zito rd 6 thank you very much.


I agree with most of this. Zito is clearly overrated. I'd clearly take Thomson in Round 21 over Zito even much later than round 6. I am not in a points league and actually a 4X4 so I'm not worried about K's. I'd prefer not to have him on my team also actually but I extended him two years after his great 2003. That being said, I don't mind him being my end of staff starter. I'll admit I'm worried about him but I'd be just as worried having some young completely unproven pitcher.



yeah let me readdress this. I still would keep him on my team if u have him. hes not really worth dropping necessarily. the only reason that none of u should have him on your teams is that more than likely he will be picked waaaay too high in your league. if he falls past rd 18, or shows up on your waiver wire, fine. take him. but like i said, hes only a spot starter. hed be a fine #5 sp, and a great #6 sp who u could throw in every time he faces kc or something. but hes a guy that i wouldnt start 75% of the time...whereas im sure theres a dumb*ss in all of your leagues who has a huge boner for the guy... so let him have him.


Our league rules are a big screwed up. We're roto, not head to head and when we make lineup changes we have to put the guy we are replacing through waivers. It makes it so that we are pretty much stuck with a guy until we give up on him or think he won't be calimed through waivers. Unfortunately that elaves me starting him 100% of the time (we start 6 or 7 starters and 2 or 3 RP). Right now I was hoping Zito and Vasquez could be my #3 and 4 behind Beckett and Burnett but now I might need Millwood to step it up a bit bigger (and hope Haren exceeds expectations). I also have Brown :-o I was telling my friends yesterday that despite Vasquez's start I have much more faith in him than Zito right now. Beckett has saved my pitching from being a total disaster so far.
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Postby donny23 » Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:23 pm

slomo007 wrote:
stoner420 wrote:
donny23 wrote:
stoner420 wrote:Hey guys... i think we all need to stop complaining about this guy... i love him. and by that i mean, i love having him drafted by some idiot in rd 6. No cafe member should have drafted him this year. Shame on you. I love having a guy like zito in the league... everyone overrates him, and im very satisfied not having him(especially in pts leagues where k's are heavy).

basically zito is not god. zito is basically a spot starter at best. if u have him on your team, im sorry. trade him after his first good start if u can/he has one. ill take john thomson rd 21 over zito rd 6 thank you very much.


I agree with most of this. Zito is clearly overrated. I'd clearly take Thomson in Round 21 over Zito even much later than round 6. I am not in a points league and actually a 4X4 so I'm not worried about K's. I'd prefer not to have him on my team also actually but I extended him two years after his great 2003. That being said, I don't mind him being my end of staff starter. I'll admit I'm worried about him but I'd be just as worried having some young completely unproven pitcher.



yeah let me readdress this. I still would keep him on my team if u have him. hes not really worth dropping necessarily. the only reason that none of u should have him on your teams is that more than likely he will be picked waaaay too high in your league. if he falls past rd 18, or shows up on your waiver wire, fine. take him. but like i said, hes only a spot starter. hed be a fine #5 sp, and a great #6 sp who u could throw in every time he faces kc or something. but hes a guy that i wouldnt start 75% of the time...whereas im sure theres a dumb*ss in all of your leagues who has a huge boner for the guy... so let him have him.


A spot starter who allowed 8 runs to Tampa Bay? Who exactly can you start him against and not be worried?


Sure, and let's not start Smoltz vs. Florida while we are at it.
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Postby slomo007 » Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:24 pm

donny23 wrote:
slomo007 wrote:
stoner420 wrote:
donny23 wrote:
stoner420 wrote:Hey guys... i think we all need to stop complaining about this guy... i love him. and by that i mean, i love having him drafted by some idiot in rd 6. No cafe member should have drafted him this year. Shame on you. I love having a guy like zito in the league... everyone overrates him, and im very satisfied not having him(especially in pts leagues where k's are heavy).

basically zito is not god. zito is basically a spot starter at best. if u have him on your team, im sorry. trade him after his first good start if u can/he has one. ill take john thomson rd 21 over zito rd 6 thank you very much.


I agree with most of this. Zito is clearly overrated. I'd clearly take Thomson in Round 21 over Zito even much later than round 6. I am not in a points league and actually a 4X4 so I'm not worried about K's. I'd prefer not to have him on my team also actually but I extended him two years after his great 2003. That being said, I don't mind him being my end of staff starter. I'll admit I'm worried about him but I'd be just as worried having some young completely unproven pitcher.



yeah let me readdress this. I still would keep him on my team if u have him. hes not really worth dropping necessarily. the only reason that none of u should have him on your teams is that more than likely he will be picked waaaay too high in your league. if he falls past rd 18, or shows up on your waiver wire, fine. take him. but like i said, hes only a spot starter. hed be a fine #5 sp, and a great #6 sp who u could throw in every time he faces kc or something. but hes a guy that i wouldnt start 75% of the time...whereas im sure theres a dumb*ss in all of your leagues who has a huge boner for the guy... so let him have him.


A spot starter who allowed 8 runs to Tampa Bay? Who exactly can you start him against and not be worried?


Sure, and let's not start Snoltz vs. Florida while we are at it.


I can see this is getting nowhere...it all comes down to your faith in Zito and my non-faith in him. Comparing Zito to Smoltz is like comparing Jennifer Aniston to Rosie O'Donnell.
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Postby donny23 » Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:26 pm

slomo007 wrote:
donny23 wrote:
slomo007 wrote:
stoner420 wrote:
donny23 wrote:
stoner420 wrote:Hey guys... i think we all need to stop complaining about this guy... i love him. and by that i mean, i love having him drafted by some idiot in rd 6. No cafe member should have drafted him this year. Shame on you. I love having a guy like zito in the league... everyone overrates him, and im very satisfied not having him(especially in pts leagues where k's are heavy).

basically zito is not god. zito is basically a spot starter at best. if u have him on your team, im sorry. trade him after his first good start if u can/he has one. ill take john thomson rd 21 over zito rd 6 thank you very much.


I agree with most of this. Zito is clearly overrated. I'd clearly take Thomson in Round 21 over Zito even much later than round 6. I am not in a points league and actually a 4X4 so I'm not worried about K's. I'd prefer not to have him on my team also actually but I extended him two years after his great 2003. That being said, I don't mind him being my end of staff starter. I'll admit I'm worried about him but I'd be just as worried having some young completely unproven pitcher.



yeah let me readdress this. I still would keep him on my team if u have him. hes not really worth dropping necessarily. the only reason that none of u should have him on your teams is that more than likely he will be picked waaaay too high in your league. if he falls past rd 18, or shows up on your waiver wire, fine. take him. but like i said, hes only a spot starter. hed be a fine #5 sp, and a great #6 sp who u could throw in every time he faces kc or something. but hes a guy that i wouldnt start 75% of the time...whereas im sure theres a dumb*ss in all of your leagues who has a huge boner for the guy... so let him have him.


A spot starter who allowed 8 runs to Tampa Bay? Who exactly can you start him against and not be worried?


Sure, and let's not start Snoltz vs. Florida while we are at it.


I can see this is getting nowhere...it all comes down to your faith in Zito and my non-faith in him. Comparing Zito to Smoltz is like comparing Jennifer Aniston to Rosie O'Donnell.


I wasn't doing it to make a comparison and have at no point said I have faith in Zito. My point was you can't judge a season based on a game. He had a dud vs Tampa but I'd still start him next time vs them. So let me ask you, if you could start Bedard vs Boston or Zito vs Tampa, you'd start Bedard?
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Postby slomo007 » Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:29 pm

donny23 wrote:
slomo007 wrote:
donny23 wrote:
slomo007 wrote:
stoner420 wrote:
donny23 wrote:
stoner420 wrote:Hey guys... i think we all need to stop complaining about this guy... i love him. and by that i mean, i love having him drafted by some idiot in rd 6. No cafe member should have drafted him this year. Shame on you. I love having a guy like zito in the league... everyone overrates him, and im very satisfied not having him(especially in pts leagues where k's are heavy).

basically zito is not god. zito is basically a spot starter at best. if u have him on your team, im sorry. trade him after his first good start if u can/he has one. ill take john thomson rd 21 over zito rd 6 thank you very much.


I agree with most of this. Zito is clearly overrated. I'd clearly take Thomson in Round 21 over Zito even much later than round 6. I am not in a points league and actually a 4X4 so I'm not worried about K's. I'd prefer not to have him on my team also actually but I extended him two years after his great 2003. That being said, I don't mind him being my end of staff starter. I'll admit I'm worried about him but I'd be just as worried having some young completely unproven pitcher.



yeah let me readdress this. I still would keep him on my team if u have him. hes not really worth dropping necessarily. the only reason that none of u should have him on your teams is that more than likely he will be picked waaaay too high in your league. if he falls past rd 18, or shows up on your waiver wire, fine. take him. but like i said, hes only a spot starter. hed be a fine #5 sp, and a great #6 sp who u could throw in every time he faces kc or something. but hes a guy that i wouldnt start 75% of the time...whereas im sure theres a dumb*ss in all of your leagues who has a huge boner for the guy... so let him have him.


A spot starter who allowed 8 runs to Tampa Bay? Who exactly can you start him against and not be worried?


Sure, and let's not start Snoltz vs. Florida while we are at it.


I can see this is getting nowhere...it all comes down to your faith in Zito and my non-faith in him. Comparing Zito to Smoltz is like comparing Jennifer Aniston to Rosie O'Donnell.


I wasn't doing it to make a comparison and have at no point said I have faith in Zito. My point was you can't judge a season based on a game. He had a dud vs Tampa but I'd still start him next time vs them. So let me ask you, if you could start Bedard vs Boston or Zito vs Tampa, you'd start Bedard?


That's not a fair comparison....Bedard vs. TB or Zito vs. TB and I would definitely without a doubt with 100% certainty start Bedard. Quite simply, I trust Bedard more...and that's truly remarkable considering he has almost no experience. Zito is capable (and probably will) get lit up by any team in the Majors....Bedard we don't know about yet.
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Postby donny23 » Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:36 pm

slomo007 wrote:
donny23 wrote:
slomo007 wrote:
donny23 wrote:
slomo007 wrote:
stoner420 wrote:
donny23 wrote:
stoner420 wrote:Hey guys... i think we all need to stop complaining about this guy... i love him. and by that i mean, i love having him drafted by some idiot in rd 6. No cafe member should have drafted him this year. Shame on you. I love having a guy like zito in the league... everyone overrates him, and im very satisfied not having him(especially in pts leagues where k's are heavy).

basically zito is not god. zito is basically a spot starter at best. if u have him on your team, im sorry. trade him after his first good start if u can/he has one. ill take john thomson rd 21 over zito rd 6 thank you very much.


I agree with most of this. Zito is clearly overrated. I'd clearly take Thomson in Round 21 over Zito even much later than round 6. I am not in a points league and actually a 4X4 so I'm not worried about K's. I'd prefer not to have him on my team also actually but I extended him two years after his great 2003. That being said, I don't mind him being my end of staff starter. I'll admit I'm worried about him but I'd be just as worried having some young completely unproven pitcher.



yeah let me readdress this. I still would keep him on my team if u have him. hes not really worth dropping necessarily. the only reason that none of u should have him on your teams is that more than likely he will be picked waaaay too high in your league. if he falls past rd 18, or shows up on your waiver wire, fine. take him. but like i said, hes only a spot starter. hed be a fine #5 sp, and a great #6 sp who u could throw in every time he faces kc or something. but hes a guy that i wouldnt start 75% of the time...whereas im sure theres a dumb*ss in all of your leagues who has a huge boner for the guy... so let him have him.


A spot starter who allowed 8 runs to Tampa Bay? Who exactly can you start him against and not be worried?


Sure, and let's not start Snoltz vs. Florida while we are at it.


I can see this is getting nowhere...it all comes down to your faith in Zito and my non-faith in him. Comparing Zito to Smoltz is like comparing Jennifer Aniston to Rosie O'Donnell.


I wasn't doing it to make a comparison and have at no point said I have faith in Zito. My point was you can't judge a season based on a game. He had a dud vs Tampa but I'd still start him next time vs them. So let me ask you, if you could start Bedard vs Boston or Zito vs Tampa, you'd start Bedard?


That's not a fair comparison....Bedard vs. TB or Zito vs. TB and I would definitely without a doubt with 100% certainty start Bedard. Quite simply, I trust Bedard more...and that's truly remarkable considering he has almost no experience. Zito is capable (and probably will) get lit up by any team in the Majors....Bedard we don't know about yet.


My point is that if he is on your bench, you might be willing to start him over Bedard given matchups. I think that's what the other guy was trying to say. You might argue back that you'd start most pitchers vs Tampa vs Bedard againts Boston. It all depends who is on your wire. I'd take Zito over all pitchers on my wire personally, and it's not because I'm high on him at all.

You've made it clear how low you are on Zito. I think you are right not to be high on him, but I think you're a little lower than most. We'll see how he bounces back after his horrid start and agree to disagree on just how bad Zito is :-D
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