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Postby BobbyRoberto » Sun Apr 10, 2005 1:08 pm

Heading into the draft, this is the information I was looking at:

2004 season: 11-11, 4.48 ERA, 1.39 WHIP
Forecaster projection: 11-11, 4.04, 1.36
ZiPS projection: 13-12, 4.23, 1.36
PECOTA projection: 13-11, 4.37, 1.36

That's mediocrity. I had him ranked accordingly.
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Postby donny23 » Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:28 am

BobbyRoberto wrote:Heading into the draft, this is the information I was looking at:

2004 season: 11-11, 4.48 ERA, 1.39 WHIP
Forecaster projection: 11-11, 4.04, 1.36
ZiPS projection: 13-12, 4.23, 1.36
PECOTA projection: 13-11, 4.37, 1.36

That's mediocrity. I had him ranked accordingly.


Mediocrity still belongs on fantasy teams though, not on the waiver wire. Add that to the fact that he is 72-42 in his career with a 3.49 ERA and people might feel that he's better than last year and his first two starts this year indicate. What have any of these young guys shown yet? Sure, they warrant a look due to their upside, but is their upside any higher than Zito's bad years? The obvious concern is that Zito is on the decline. Many people think he can bounce back though and aren't ready to through him back to the waiver wire because of 2 bad starts.
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Postby slomo007 » Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:30 am

donny23 wrote:
BobbyRoberto wrote:Heading into the draft, this is the information I was looking at:

2004 season: 11-11, 4.48 ERA, 1.39 WHIP
Forecaster projection: 11-11, 4.04, 1.36
ZiPS projection: 13-12, 4.23, 1.36
PECOTA projection: 13-11, 4.37, 1.36

That's mediocrity. I had him ranked accordingly.


Mediocrity still belongs on fantasy teams though, not on the waiver wire. Add that to the fact that he is 72-42 in his career with a 3.49 ERA and people might feel that he's better than last year and his first two starts this year indicate. What have any of these young guys shown yet? Sure, they warrant a look due to their upside, but is their upside any higher than Zito's bad years? The obvious concern is that Zito is on the decline. Many people think he can bounce back though and aren't ready to through him back to the waiver wire because of 2 bad starts.


To be quite honest, yes. Bedard or Bautista are definitely capable of posting better than a 4.5 ERA with a 1.4 WHIP. Plus, they'll get at least as many Ks in the process. Zito is WW material in most leagues, unless there is a big Oakland fan you can dump him on.
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Postby donny23 » Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:52 am

slomo007 wrote:
donny23 wrote:
BobbyRoberto wrote:Heading into the draft, this is the information I was looking at:

2004 season: 11-11, 4.48 ERA, 1.39 WHIP
Forecaster projection: 11-11, 4.04, 1.36
ZiPS projection: 13-12, 4.23, 1.36
PECOTA projection: 13-11, 4.37, 1.36

That's mediocrity. I had him ranked accordingly.


Mediocrity still belongs on fantasy teams though, not on the waiver wire. Add that to the fact that he is 72-42 in his career with a 3.49 ERA and people might feel that he's better than last year and his first two starts this year indicate. What have any of these young guys shown yet? Sure, they warrant a look due to their upside, but is their upside any higher than Zito's bad years? The obvious concern is that Zito is on the decline. Many people think he can bounce back though and aren't ready to through him back to the waiver wire because of 2 bad starts.


To be quite honest, yes. Bedard or Bautista are definitely capable of posting better than a 4.5 ERA with a 1.4 WHIP. Plus, they'll get at least as many Ks in the process. Zito is WW material in most leagues, unless there is a big Oakland fan you can dump him on.


To be honest, so is Zito capable of posting better numbers than those and has proven he can do it.
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Postby slomo007 » Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:55 am

donny23 wrote:
slomo007 wrote:
donny23 wrote:
BobbyRoberto wrote:Heading into the draft, this is the information I was looking at:

2004 season: 11-11, 4.48 ERA, 1.39 WHIP
Forecaster projection: 11-11, 4.04, 1.36
ZiPS projection: 13-12, 4.23, 1.36
PECOTA projection: 13-11, 4.37, 1.36

That's mediocrity. I had him ranked accordingly.


Mediocrity still belongs on fantasy teams though, not on the waiver wire. Add that to the fact that he is 72-42 in his career with a 3.49 ERA and people might feel that he's better than last year and his first two starts this year indicate. What have any of these young guys shown yet? Sure, they warrant a look due to their upside, but is their upside any higher than Zito's bad years? The obvious concern is that Zito is on the decline. Many people think he can bounce back though and aren't ready to through him back to the waiver wire because of 2 bad starts.


To be quite honest, yes. Bedard or Bautista are definitely capable of posting better than a 4.5 ERA with a 1.4 WHIP. Plus, they'll get at least as many Ks in the process. Zito is WW material in most leagues, unless there is a big Oakland fan you can dump him on.


To be honest, so is Zito capable of posting better numbers than those and has proven he can do it.


He has also proven that he can ruin your ERA/WHIP, Bedard and Bautista have not. If you're a gambling man, I'd take a chance on either of them.....if you're not, stick with Zito and hope he rebounds. I personally don't think he will.
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Postby stoner420 » Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:01 pm

Hey guys... i think we all need to stop complaining about this guy... i love him. and by that i mean, i love having him drafted by some idiot in rd 6. No cafe member should have drafted him this year. Shame on you. I love having a guy like zito in the league... everyone overrates him, and im very satisfied not having him(especially in pts leagues where k's are heavy).

basically zito is not god. zito is basically a spot starter at best. if u have him on your team, im sorry. trade him after his first good start if u can/he has one. ill take john thomson rd 21 over zito rd 6 thank you very much.
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Postby donny23 » Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:03 pm

slomo007 wrote:
donny23 wrote:
slomo007 wrote:
donny23 wrote:
BobbyRoberto wrote:Heading into the draft, this is the information I was looking at:

2004 season: 11-11, 4.48 ERA, 1.39 WHIP
Forecaster projection: 11-11, 4.04, 1.36
ZiPS projection: 13-12, 4.23, 1.36
PECOTA projection: 13-11, 4.37, 1.36

That's mediocrity. I had him ranked accordingly.


Mediocrity still belongs on fantasy teams though, not on the waiver wire. Add that to the fact that he is 72-42 in his career with a 3.49 ERA and people might feel that he's better than last year and his first two starts this year indicate. What have any of these young guys shown yet? Sure, they warrant a look due to their upside, but is their upside any higher than Zito's bad years? The obvious concern is that Zito is on the decline. Many people think he can bounce back though and aren't ready to through him back to the waiver wire because of 2 bad starts.


To be quite honest, yes. Bedard or Bautista are definitely capable of posting better than a 4.5 ERA with a 1.4 WHIP. Plus, they'll get at least as many Ks in the process. Zito is WW material in most leagues, unless there is a big Oakland fan you can dump him on.


To be honest, so is Zito capable of posting better numbers than those and has proven he can do it.


He has also proven that he can ruin your ERA/WHIP, Bedard and Bautista have not. If you're a gambling man, I'd take a chance on either of them.....if you're not, stick with Zito and hope he rebounds. I personally don't think he will.


Well, for 4 years Zito proved he can help your ERA and to a lesser extent WHIP. He had a bad year last year and it's very possible but not certain that this is a trend for the rest of his career. In the meantime Bedard and Bautista have never really proven anything one way or another. Since most pitchers, including more touted prospects than these two, end up being mediocre at best, I would say that taking a chance on them is as big if not bigger risk than Zito.
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Postby slomo007 » Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:05 pm

Let me guess, you own Zito on multiple teams?

There is no reason whatsoever to be optimistic on him. He has proven for well over a year that his curve is not what it used to be....either he's not throwing it as well, or the hitters are figuring it out. Either way, there is nothing leading me to believe he's going to rebound. To each his own though, good luck with it. At the very least, stash him on your bench, but don't start him. I actually have him on my bench in one league, but one more bad start and he's being cut completely.
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Postby donny23 » Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:06 pm

stoner420 wrote:Hey guys... i think we all need to stop complaining about this guy... i love him. and by that i mean, i love having him drafted by some idiot in rd 6. No cafe member should have drafted him this year. Shame on you. I love having a guy like zito in the league... everyone overrates him, and im very satisfied not having him(especially in pts leagues where k's are heavy).

basically zito is not god. zito is basically a spot starter at best. if u have him on your team, im sorry. trade him after his first good start if u can/he has one. ill take john thomson rd 21 over zito rd 6 thank you very much.


I agree with most of this. Zito is clearly overrated. I'd clearly take Thomson in Round 21 over Zito even much later than round 6. I am not in a points league and actually a 4X4 so I'm not worried about K's. I'd prefer not to have him on my team also actually but I extended him two years after his great 2003. That being said, I don't mind him being my end of staff starter. I'll admit I'm worried about him but I'd be just as worried having some young completely unproven pitcher.
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Postby donny23 » Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:09 pm

slomo007 wrote:Let me guess, you own Zito on multiple teams?

There is no reason whatsoever to be optimistic on him. He has proven for well over a year that his curve is not what it used to be....either he's not throwing it as well, or the hitters are figuring it out. Either way, there is nothing leading me to believe he's going to rebound. To each his own though, good luck with it. At the very least, stash him on your bench, but don't start him. I actually have him on my bench in one league, but one more bad start and he's being cut completely.


I own him in one league only and I'm completely worried about him. I'd be worried with a young guy like Bedard also though. My point is that you completely exagerate how bad he is. Guys have been overrating him for years and now I have a feeling the opposite will start happening. I have a feeling that your league isn't as deep as mine, because there is not one team that would have the depth on their bench to be able to put Zito on the bench (unless they stuck a guy like Pedro Astacio in there). It's all about perspective. You're probably in a mixed league (12 team or less). Mine is larger and not mixed.
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