Cliff Floyd - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2015 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Cliff Floyd

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Postby quietstorm » Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:22 am

I love how every post in this thread (aside from that one about Gavin) uses that classic "if he stays healthy" line. Don't pick up Floyd expecting a healthy year. That's like doing the same with Griffey or Kearns. Floyd is a top-notch player when he plays, but he isn't going to play a full season. Bet on 110-120 games with a .280 average and about 20-25 HR.
Your wisemen don't know how it feels to be thick as a brick...
quietstorm
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar

Posts: 758
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby bobby » Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:17 am

Somebody else already grabbed him. I ended up dumping Byrnes for Nick Swisher. Thanks anyways guys!
bobby
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar

Posts: 588
Joined: 22 Sep 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby DaQ » Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:12 am

warrick95 wrote:
DaQ wrote:
Viper8437 wrote:
Darkie Satchels wrote:Floyd is an interesting question mark. Is he the future? Yes. But right now I think he scrapped for 5th in rotation and when Padilla returns from the DL, we could easily see Floyd sit down for the season. I currently have him until this happens with Padilla, who I also have bakin' cookies on my DL. I think Floyd is going to be great but we'll have to wait until Saturday to find out. He is debuting to a potent St. Louis lineup. But I think he's got the junk to go the distance. Take him if you like to win and win big off a gamble. ;-D But it could easily roll the other direction, and in a hurry. :-t


umm lay off the crack
who are you talking about?


Hehe...I was thinking that too. I'm pretty sure he's talking about Gavin Floyd.

I don't remember exactly what Cliff Floyd's stats were last year (* I have a general idea - see bottom), but I do watch him a lot since I am a Mets fan. I feel he's a "hit or miss" type player. He has a heavy swing and he'll either hit a bomb or get out. He can't run either like he used to. If you need power, take Floyd. If you want speed and average, keep Byrnes.

If Byrnes is platooning though, take Floyd - he's going to stay in the starting lineup barring injury. Floyd should hit close to 25 HR's, 70-75 RBI and a .265 AVG.


He has plenty of potential when healthy. DaQ, I'm sorry, but that isn't a great analysis of Floyd. He's not a hit or miss type player. When he's dialed in, he's a superb hitter. Believe it or not, he's one of the top lefty hitters vs. lefties in the game. He's hit .289 in his career vs. then...against .281 vs. righties.

He may have tried to hit for too much power last yera, but I doubt that continues. I think they're going to tell him to work on being a good hitter overall. His spring stats do reflect that, if that means anything...high average, little power.

The good Cliff Floyd is not an all or nothing player. It's one that cna hit close to .300. .283 lifetime clip, including a a consistent high .200s low .300s streak in his prime years. He may be past his prime, but given a full season, he can certainly hit .285-28 HR-15 SB...at least.


That's the good Cliff Floyd... the bad one is nothing like that. Being a Mets fan, I watch a lot of their games and even Floys is a good player who puts up good numbers during the year, it could be a little deceptive. He gets in a few prolonged slumps due to his tendancy to pull and this is hidden in his solid numbers...I'd be surprised if he stole 15 bases...his legs aren't too great anymore. He got picked off last night even though the TV showed he was safe, but I don't think he'll steal 15. He had surgery not too long ago and those days of 20+ SB's are gone for him IMO, he can barely move in LF as it is.

Overall, Floyd puts up decent numbers. But if you grab him at the wrong time, you'll see that he slumps once in a while. Remember, he only hits around .265 nowadays.

I'm a Mets fan so this is based on what I've seen. I know he already got picked up, but that's just my opinion.
DaQ
General Manager
General Manager


Posts: 2583
Joined: 6 Feb 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby warrick95 » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:01 am

DaQ wrote:
warrick95 wrote:
DaQ wrote:
Viper8437 wrote:
Darkie Satchels wrote:Floyd is an interesting question mark. Is he the future? Yes. But right now I think he scrapped for 5th in rotation and when Padilla returns from the DL, we could easily see Floyd sit down for the season. I currently have him until this happens with Padilla, who I also have bakin' cookies on my DL. I think Floyd is going to be great but we'll have to wait until Saturday to find out. He is debuting to a potent St. Louis lineup. But I think he's got the junk to go the distance. Take him if you like to win and win big off a gamble. ;-D But it could easily roll the other direction, and in a hurry. :-t


umm lay off the crack
who are you talking about?


Hehe...I was thinking that too. I'm pretty sure he's talking about Gavin Floyd.

I don't remember exactly what Cliff Floyd's stats were last year (* I have a general idea - see bottom), but I do watch him a lot since I am a Mets fan. I feel he's a "hit or miss" type player. He has a heavy swing and he'll either hit a bomb or get out. He can't run either like he used to. If you need power, take Floyd. If you want speed and average, keep Byrnes.

If Byrnes is platooning though, take Floyd - he's going to stay in the starting lineup barring injury. Floyd should hit close to 25 HR's, 70-75 RBI and a .265 AVG.


He has plenty of potential when healthy. DaQ, I'm sorry, but that isn't a great analysis of Floyd. He's not a hit or miss type player. When he's dialed in, he's a superb hitter. Believe it or not, he's one of the top lefty hitters vs. lefties in the game. He's hit .289 in his career vs. then...against .281 vs. righties.

He may have tried to hit for too much power last yera, but I doubt that continues. I think they're going to tell him to work on being a good hitter overall. His spring stats do reflect that, if that means anything...high average, little power.

The good Cliff Floyd is not an all or nothing player. It's one that cna hit close to .300. .283 lifetime clip, including a a consistent high .200s low .300s streak in his prime years. He may be past his prime, but given a full season, he can certainly hit .285-28 HR-15 SB...at least.


That's the good Cliff Floyd... the bad one is nothing like that. Being a Mets fan, I watch a lot of their games and even Floys is a good player who puts up good numbers during the year, it could be a little deceptive. He gets in a few prolonged slumps due to his tendancy to pull and this is hidden in his solid numbers...I'd be surprised if he stole 15 bases...his legs aren't too great anymore. He got picked off last night even though the TV showed he was safe, but I don't think he'll steal 15. He had surgery not too long ago and those days of 20+ SB's are gone for him IMO, he can barely move in LF as it is.

Overall, Floyd puts up decent numbers. But if you grab him at the wrong time, you'll see that he slumps once in a while. Remember, he only hits around .265 nowadays.

I'm a Mets fan so this is based on what I've seen. I know he already got picked up, but that's just my opinion.


The problem I have with that, is that you're basing the pull-happy, all or nothing Floyd on one season. He was never as bad as that in the past. Due to the years of good hitting out of him (as compared to one season of horrible play), there is reason to believe that he can hit higher than a .265 clip. I would be very surprised if he didn't hit at least .280 this year (want a Cafe bet?) He just recently hit .290 in 2003, .288 in 2002, .317 in 2001, .300 in 2000. As long as Cliff STAYS PATIENT at the plate, .280 is a given.

Floyd used to be a five tool player for sure. As you said, his legs are pretty bad now. However, note that Willie Randolph LOVES to run (as evidenced by his style of play in Spring Training) and Floyd, though not in his 20 steal days, is still quite capable of lumbering along from 1st to 2nd. 15 stolen bases is certainly not out of the question in my opinion, even though he's not a shade of his former self in speed. He's a very smart runner, though.
warrick95
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 5440
Joined: 27 May 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The empty seat next to the Tampa Bay heckler

Postby BillyMafia » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:21 am

I would have kept Byrnes over Swisher.
BillyMafia
Major League Manager
Major League Manager


Posts: 1283
Joined: 17 Apr 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby DaQ » Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:34 pm

warrick95 wrote:
DaQ wrote:
warrick95 wrote:
DaQ wrote:
Viper8437 wrote:
Darkie Satchels wrote:Floyd is an interesting question mark. Is he the future? Yes. But right now I think he scrapped for 5th in rotation and when Padilla returns from the DL, we could easily see Floyd sit down for the season. I currently have him until this happens with Padilla, who I also have bakin' cookies on my DL. I think Floyd is going to be great but we'll have to wait until Saturday to find out. He is debuting to a potent St. Louis lineup. But I think he's got the junk to go the distance. Take him if you like to win and win big off a gamble. ;-D But it could easily roll the other direction, and in a hurry. :-t


umm lay off the crack
who are you talking about?


Hehe...I was thinking that too. I'm pretty sure he's talking about Gavin Floyd.

I don't remember exactly what Cliff Floyd's stats were last year (* I have a general idea - see bottom), but I do watch him a lot since I am a Mets fan. I feel he's a "hit or miss" type player. He has a heavy swing and he'll either hit a bomb or get out. He can't run either like he used to. If you need power, take Floyd. If you want speed and average, keep Byrnes.

If Byrnes is platooning though, take Floyd - he's going to stay in the starting lineup barring injury. Floyd should hit close to 25 HR's, 70-75 RBI and a .265 AVG.


He has plenty of potential when healthy. DaQ, I'm sorry, but that isn't a great analysis of Floyd. He's not a hit or miss type player. When he's dialed in, he's a superb hitter. Believe it or not, he's one of the top lefty hitters vs. lefties in the game. He's hit .289 in his career vs. then...against .281 vs. righties.

He may have tried to hit for too much power last yera, but I doubt that continues. I think they're going to tell him to work on being a good hitter overall. His spring stats do reflect that, if that means anything...high average, little power.

The good Cliff Floyd is not an all or nothing player. It's one that cna hit close to .300. .283 lifetime clip, including a a consistent high .200s low .300s streak in his prime years. He may be past his prime, but given a full season, he can certainly hit .285-28 HR-15 SB...at least.


That's the good Cliff Floyd... the bad one is nothing like that. Being a Mets fan, I watch a lot of their games and even Floys is a good player who puts up good numbers during the year, it could be a little deceptive. He gets in a few prolonged slumps due to his tendancy to pull and this is hidden in his solid numbers...I'd be surprised if he stole 15 bases...his legs aren't too great anymore. He got picked off last night even though the TV showed he was safe, but I don't think he'll steal 15. He had surgery not too long ago and those days of 20+ SB's are gone for him IMO, he can barely move in LF as it is.

Overall, Floyd puts up decent numbers. But if you grab him at the wrong time, you'll see that he slumps once in a while. Remember, he only hits around .265 nowadays.

I'm a Mets fan so this is based on what I've seen. I know he already got picked up, but that's just my opinion.


The problem I have with that, is that you're basing the pull-happy, all or nothing Floyd on one season. He was never as bad as that in the past. Due to the years of good hitting out of him (as compared to one season of horrible play), there is reason to believe that he can hit higher than a .265 clip. I would be very surprised if he didn't hit at least .280 this year (want a Cafe bet?) He just recently hit .290 in 2003, .288 in 2002, .317 in 2001, .300 in 2000. As long as Cliff STAYS PATIENT at the plate, .280 is a given.

Floyd used to be a five tool player for sure. As you said, his legs are pretty bad now. However, note that Willie Randolph LOVES to run (as evidenced by his style of play in Spring Training) and Floyd, though not in his 20 steal days, is still quite capable of lumbering along from 1st to 2nd. 15 stolen bases is certainly not out of the question in my opinion, even though he's not a shade of his former self in speed. He's a very smart runner, though.


This "quoting" is getting a little long lol. Ever since he tore (or ruptured) his Achillies tendon a few years back, his speed has gone down (not by stats, but actual speed). The guy limps around in LF. I know Randolph likes to run, but he has to be a little bit smart here. I think 15 steals is a MAX for Floyd, and I don't even think he'll reach that. He is probavly a smart runner, but not very fast.

Hitting wise we're at different ends about. Ever since he had that surgery, I felt he lost something. He'll probably take a couple more days off than usual to rest it. Hopefully as you said Floyd can hit .280, but he thinks about the HR. Even if he doesn't pull as much this year, he still thinks about hitting one out of the park. If you watch a Mets game (may be tough if you're not in NY - the Yansk get all the big TV games), you'll see there's a little uppercut to his swing. He isn't a big contact hitter and since he is big (6'4", 230), he wants that big HR. Maybe he'll be smart and hit .280-.285 if he's really healthy, but one small slump and he'll try to pull everything again.

We'll see what happens. You're going with the stats, I'm going by what I see when he plays. Should be interesting.
DaQ
General Manager
General Manager


Posts: 2583
Joined: 6 Feb 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby warrick95 » Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:01 pm

To be honest, I'm not completely going by stats. I saw a lot of Cliff Floyd in his prime. Perhaps I'm being stubbornly nostalgic, but I don't think his productive days are over. The Floyd you're describing is drastically different from the Floyd I'm describing. I agree that he does have a bit of an uppercut in his swing and that he is overly aggressive at the plate, but I feel that if he corrects his mentality by being more patient and going the other way, he'll be fine.

He had offseason surgery in 2003. IMO, one season is too small a sample size to truly judge whether that surgery marked the end of his career. There's probably no doubt that he wasn't fully recovered from surgery last year (along with his customary nagging injuries hurting him, too).

Floyd's not a terrible contact hitter, by the way. 103 Ks last year was pretty high for him...if he can trim it down to around 90, he's good to go.

I know he limps around...I know he lost a lot of speed...but I feel that Floyd is still "fast at heart" and will continue to attempt his SBs. That's why if he plays a full season, I think 15 SBs is certainly a possibility. Is it smart (as you questioned)? Maybe not, but he was running more than I expected last year with Art Howe as manager, too.

Going back to statistics, last year was pretty far from his career norms. He's 32, which I feel is a young enough age to still have productivity left without a drastic decline.
warrick95
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 5440
Joined: 27 May 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The empty seat next to the Tampa Bay heckler

Postby bobby » Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:05 pm

BillyMafia wrote:I would have kept Byrnes over Swisher.




Swisher is a switch hitter who can play LF, RF, and 1B. Swisher is in the line-up again today this time at 1B. Yesterday Byrnes didn't even play and was sat for left-handed hitting Charles Thomas. Swisher is gonna get more ABs.
bobby
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar

Posts: 588
Joined: 22 Sep 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby bobby » Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:38 pm

AS soon as I say that.... BYRNZY JUST HIT A 3-RUN HOMER... D'OH!!! :-o
bobby
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar

Posts: 588
Joined: 22 Sep 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby RynMan » Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:07 am

I would really only use him to plug a hole (i.e. while Bonds is out). I dont think its wise to bank on him for a full time position.
Image
RynMan
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerAward-Winning Graphics ExpertMock(ing) DrafterEagle Eye
Posts: 8891
Joined: 4 Feb 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Oztailia

Previous

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact