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Postby wrveres » Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:37 am

Post this article and picture on your league website.
Call it physiological warfare. :-o

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MIAMI, April 5 -- Atlanta Braves pitcher John Smoltz made one thing clear this afternoon: He does not pitch well with 1,395 days of rest between starts.
Smoltz's much anticipated return to the starting rotation after nearly four years as Atlanta's closer went downhill so quickly and so dramatically Smoltz didn't make it out of the second inning, pitching less in the Braves' 9-0 Opening Day loss to the Florida Marlins at Dolphins Stadium than in five appearances last year out of the bullpen.
"I'm disappointed with the results," he said. "Not with the way I threw."
The Marlins did not score off Smoltz in 29 relief appearances over several seasons, but they compensated by racking up seven runs -- six earned -- in 1 2/3 innings.
"I had this scoreless streak against them, yet they came out and destroyed it all in the first inning," Smoltz said. "I'm one that . . . doesn't allow this to be a devastating blow. It just really puts a damper on the start of the season."
Smoltz's struggles hinted that the Braves might have been too optimistic in expecting that he, at 37, could help the Braves' starting rotation return to its mid-1990s dominance. Smoltz, however, viewed the outing as a decent day marred only by a couple of poor pitches in two-out situations.
"I'm surprised whenever John gives up a run, to be honest with you," Braves Manager Bobby Cox said.
Smoltz faced 12 batters and threw 65 pitches. He had one strikeout and two walks. Last season, Smoltz collected 44 saves in 49 chances and posted a 2.76 ERA. He gave up his first walk in mid-June.
"As mad as I was walking off the mound, what can you do?" he said. "Obviously, I wouldn't have thought this was possible. . . . Clearly, my next start Sunday . . . should be a lot better."
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Postby thehat » Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:47 am

Chances are that those who drafted Smoltz knew they were taking a bit of a risk to begin with. Therefore, I find it hard to imagine that any would be willing to part with him for less than fair market value at this point. If you want him, you're going to have to part with a star IMO.

Obviously, this does not apply if you're dealing with a rookie skipper or one who is simply a dunderhead. (jeez, I love it when I find a spot to use that word.)
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Postby agchris02 » Wed Apr 06, 2005 3:24 am

GrimZeke007 wrote:Should I offer Bonderman for Smoltz? Classic buy low sell high? :-?


absolutely not -- bonderman will outperorm an aging smoltz this yr
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Postby sinicalypse » Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:34 am

i don't try to rip people off outright, but i try to let them make bad moves for themselves.

case in point, this one guy proposes a wacko trade where i get a bunch of crap and he gets dontrelle willis, joe mauer, and juan pierre from me.

so i make a mental note that he wants those three players.

i propose a counter trade with all 3 of them for players who were clearly better... i forget who, but that doesnt matter. he refused, and countered with another weak trade for all 3 of those names.

i counter with maddux, dontrelle willis, and juan pierre for rich harden and jose reyes. b00m. he takes it hook line and sinker, and if reyes somehow stays healthy, and if harden is harden and not blistered beckett v2.0, i think the golden fleece has been applied to this guy.

so i think the best way to get a trade that favors you is to like, go out there and try to propose trades to a lot of people. start off offering too little for too much, and see if you ca nget them to make a coutner offer. make note of the player(s) who they want, then counter back with a slightly varied offer that is still too much for too little. whoever they tried to get in both of hteir trade proposals to you are the guys that they want the most, and from there, i tend to start with ridiculous trade offers for like 2-3-4 rounds, then i turn around and make a trade offer that's still good for me, but seems like way less to them. since all of the players they want are in there, usually plus extra baggage you might want to get rid of (in the case of my trade example, maddux) and bam, its done.

so for maddux, dontrelle willis, and juan pierre... i got what i think will be a top-5 MLB pitcher and a guy who i think is capable of a better steals-heavy season tha njuan pierre. and with the free spot from maddux, i picked up scott kazmir.

so factoring kazmir in, it was basically harden, reyes, and kazmir for maddux, willis, and pierre. i'll take that any day of the week, even if there's a ~15 steal dropoff from pierre to reyes
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Postby George_Foreman » Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:40 am

agchris02 wrote:
GrimZeke007 wrote:Should I offer Bonderman for Smoltz? Classic buy low sell high? :-?


absolutely not -- bonderman will outperorm an aging smoltz this yr


apperantly you should. :-)
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Postby Transmogrifier » Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:37 am

sinicalypse wrote:i don't try to rip people off outright, but i try to let them make bad moves for themselves.

case in point, this one guy proposes a wacko trade where i get a bunch of crap and he gets dontrelle willis, joe mauer, and juan pierre from me.

so i make a mental note that he wants those three players.

i propose a counter trade with all 3 of them for players who were clearly better... i forget who, but that doesnt matter. he refused, and countered with another weak trade for all 3 of those names.

i counter with maddux, dontrelle willis, and juan pierre for rich harden and jose reyes. b00m. he takes it hook line and sinker, and if reyes somehow stays healthy, and if harden is harden and not blistered beckett v2.0, i think the golden fleece has been applied to this guy.

so i think the best way to get a trade that favors you is to like, go out there and try to propose trades to a lot of people. start off offering too little for too much, and see if you ca nget them to make a coutner offer. make note of the player(s) who they want, then counter back with a slightly varied offer that is still too much for too little. whoever they tried to get in both of hteir trade proposals to you are the guys that they want the most, and from there, i tend to start with ridiculous trade offers for like 2-3-4 rounds, then i turn around and make a trade offer that's still good for me, but seems like way less to them. since all of the players they want are in there, usually plus extra baggage you might want to get rid of (in the case of my trade example, maddux) and bam, its done.

so for maddux, dontrelle willis, and juan pierre... i got what i think will be a top-5 MLB pitcher and a guy who i think is capable of a better steals-heavy season tha njuan pierre. and with the free spot from maddux, i picked up scott kazmir.

so factoring kazmir in, it was basically harden, reyes, and kazmir for maddux, willis, and pierre. i'll take that any day of the week, even if there's a ~15 steal dropoff from pierre to reyes


Hey Sini!!! It's been a longtime--where have you been?

And, AA, I should add, that I'm one of those down on Smoltz this year. That's why I didn't draft him. But I imagine that those that took the risk might be a little more patient.
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Postby great gretzky » Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:38 am

well I personally think that you need to be looking ALWAYS to upgrade your team.

Was having a conversation the other day with a respected emember of one of my leagues. He seems trade adverse, but is a good drafter. I am pretty much always envisioning scnearios and trying to think big. You can have an 80 percent failure rate and still have great success, because you are always thinking.

That said with smoltz, if I had him I would be looking to trade him for market value -- and sending risk to someone else. If it was a lowball, I'd think no way.

With certain players, I let owners hang themselves -- I think you can definitely make a mistake dealing for smoltz. Tough transition, is old -- but just good enough to lure you win.

You only get him if it is cents on the dollar, otherwise the risk cuts too much into your reward.
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Postby Mookie4ever » Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:39 am

agchris02 wrote:
GrimZeke007 wrote:Should I offer Bonderman for Smoltz? Classic buy low sell high? :-?


absolutely not -- bonderman will outperorm an aging smoltz this yr


Looks like there are some people willing to make that deal. I would throw in Miguel Batista along with Bonderman for Smoltz.
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Postby Mookie4ever » Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:42 am

wrveres wrote:Post this article and picture on your league website.
Call it physiological warfare. :-o

Image

MIAMI, April 5 -- Atlanta Braves pitcher John Smoltz made one thing clear this afternoon: He does not pitch well with 1,395 days of rest between starts.
Smoltz's much anticipated return to the starting rotation after nearly four years as Atlanta's closer went downhill so quickly and so dramatically Smoltz didn't make it out of the second inning, pitching less in the Braves' 9-0 Opening Day loss to the Florida Marlins at Dolphins Stadium than in five appearances last year out of the bullpen.
"I'm disappointed with the results," he said. "Not with the way I threw."
The Marlins did not score off Smoltz in 29 relief appearances over several seasons, but they compensated by racking up seven runs -- six earned -- in 1 2/3 innings.
"I had this scoreless streak against them, yet they came out and destroyed it all in the first inning," Smoltz said. "I'm one that . . . doesn't allow this to be a devastating blow. It just really puts a damper on the start of the season."
Smoltz's struggles hinted that the Braves might have been too optimistic in expecting that he, at 37, could help the Braves' starting rotation return to its mid-1990s dominance. Smoltz, however, viewed the outing as a decent day marred only by a couple of poor pitches in two-out situations.
"I'm surprised whenever John gives up a run, to be honest with you," Braves Manager Bobby Cox said.
Smoltz faced 12 batters and threw 65 pitches. He had one strikeout and two walks. Last season, Smoltz collected 44 saves in 49 chances and posted a 2.76 ERA. He gave up his first walk in mid-June.
"As mad as I was walking off the mound, what can you do?" he said. "Obviously, I wouldn't have thought this was possible. . . . Clearly, my next start Sunday . . . should be a lot better."


Haha - one tip though. If you are going to engage in this type of psychological warfare don't go on a fantasy baseball bulletin board and tell your competitors what you are doing. :-D

Smoltz for Tejada wr?
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Postby TB13 » Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:27 am

I say first put out a feeler and find out what and whom the other player is looking for. Then make a deal, but one that involves 2 lesser (but not by much) players for the one you really want. If the other owner is down on Smoltz, you get your man.
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