rank these setup men in a holds league:

[bluefire7]

how would you guys rank em?

a. otsuka
y. brazoban
m. gonzalez
r. madson

please consider brazoban as a setup man and not gagne's replacement.. i'm seeing which one would be better for holds. thanks

[TheYanks04]

Since Brazoban is closing fo at least a couple of weeks, he is #1 right now. Otsuka is #2.

[Strasil42]

Since Brazoban is closing fo at least a couple of weeks, he is #1 right now. Otsuka is #2.

normally its

otsuka
gonzo
brazoban
madson

but since brazoban is closing id move him to the top

[jjigglers]

side question: where does T. Gordon fit in that list?

He didnt look good today in the game, and no, I didnt just look at the stats. The only outs he got were long fly balls, where the Sox guys were still getting good contact. Like the announcer said, his breaking pitches werent breaking, and the hitters were making really good contact on his speed.

[TheYanks04]

The only pitcher that looked good tonight was RJ. It was cold and it is hard to throw breaking stuff consistently under those conditions. Not an excuse, but nevertheless I would not read a lot into tonight's game wrt Wells or Gordon. More worrisome from my point of view was that I thought Gordon's fastball was too straight. Hopefully it is just a lousy outting on a bad day weather-wise.

[KolbSaves]

put me down for

otsuka
gonzalez
brazoban
madson (he won't be used in the setup role so holds are shaky)

[LBJackal]

Otsuka
Gonzalez
.
.
.
.
.
Brazoban
.
.
.
.
.
Madson

HLD's are more valuable than SV's so I couldn't care less if Brazoban is the closer or primary setup man... he's just not that good and not in Otsuka/Gonzalez's league.

[KolbSaves]

How do you figure holds are more valuable than saves? Sure the top holders get less holds than the top savers but saves are a lot harder to come by. The replacement level and standard deviation on holds are both low.

[LBJackal]

Replacement level for holds is higher than for saves (obviously). The higher the replacement level, means a fewer amount of adjusted (actual minus replacement) holds available in the positive player pool, means more value for each hold over replacement. They're tougher to get (Usually top holds guys get 30, and top closers get 45) but that doesn't mean holds aren't more valuable. The switch from primary setup man to closer probably lowers a player's actual value in a league that counts holds (depending on how many holds the setup man was getting). However in that situation the perceived value goes up because holds are seen as inferior to saves. Same idea with HR and SB kinda. We know that HR are much more valuable in real life so we think in fantasy it should be the same.

So taking all that into account... Brazoban isn't that good, and isn't even close to guys like Otsuka. When dealing with guys who will get holds/saves no matter what, it comes down to their other stats to compare them to other players in the same situation. And methinks his ERA/WHIP will be a lot worse than Otsuka and Gonzo's.

[quietstorm]

Ostuka, period. I also like maybe a duo of Brendan Donnelly and Scot Shields from Anaheim.