Why is Clemens getting NO respect in pre-season rankings? - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Why is Clemens getting NO respect in pre-season rankings?

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Postby LBJackal » Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:13 am

nuggets wrote:
klvrdude wrote:
CubsFan7724 wrote:
Yoda wrote:Yeah he REALLY slowed down a lot in 04 all the way through the playoffs.

Last year was the first time he had an ERA under 3 in 6 years. It was also the first time he had a WHIP under 1.20 in 5. Don't expect him to repeat last years numbers.


Good point. I think his honeymoon period in Houston is over.


Uhhh I think YODA was being a little sarcastic. Does anyone remember how Clemens finished the season? I'll remind you:

Sept '04
6 GS, 4 W, 0 L, 42.0 IP (7IP average), 12 BB, 46 K, 2.57 ERA, 0.93 WHIP, .182 BAA

;-D ;-D ;-D Does it get any better than that? Oh and his home ERA, WHIP and BAA kills his away for the whole season. Even more evidence that he can succeed @ home?


No, more evidence that people who own him will have their jaws closer to the floor when he starts giving up gopher balls left right and center (but mostly left, with that short porch).

There's no reason other than coicnidence that he was that much better at home. He got his fat contract, and in his mind is in Del Boca Vista right now. Not something I'd invest in.
Image

"Jack, will you call me, if you're able?"

"I've got your phone number written, in the back of my Bible."
LBJackal
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Pick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 9196
Joined: 1 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The Hotel Yorba

Postby nuggets » Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:30 pm

LBJackal wrote:There's no reason other than coicnidence that he(Clemens) was that much better at home.


Wow, do you really believe that? See he started 20 games at home, 54% more than away. Larger sample size = greater accuracy, you know that LBJ, right? I believe that is the most starts at home for a SP last year but someone come along an correct me.

LBJackal wrote:He got his fat contract, and in his mind is in Del Boca Vista right now. Not something I'd invest in.


I'm sure Clemens mind is on the season now but he is the type of athlete that can shift his focus with great power. I'm sure he parties and vacations like none other but he also focuses on the game like none other. We are talking about one of the most focused and competitive athletes of all time.
nuggets
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar

Posts: 3342
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby Yoda » Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:04 pm

LBJackal wrote:
nuggets wrote:
klvrdude wrote:
CubsFan7724 wrote:
Yoda wrote:Yeah he REALLY slowed down a lot in 04 all the way through the playoffs.

Last year was the first time he had an ERA under 3 in 6 years. It was also the first time he had a WHIP under 1.20 in 5. Don't expect him to repeat last years numbers.


Good point. I think his honeymoon period in Houston is over.


Uhhh I think YODA was being a little sarcastic. Does anyone remember how Clemens finished the season? I'll remind you:

Sept '04
6 GS, 4 W, 0 L, 42.0 IP (7IP average), 12 BB, 46 K, 2.57 ERA, 0.93 WHIP, .182 BAA

;-D ;-D ;-D Does it get any better than that? Oh and his home ERA, WHIP and BAA kills his away for the whole season. Even more evidence that he can succeed @ home?


No, more evidence that people who own him will have their jaws closer to the floor when he starts giving up gopher balls left right and center (but mostly left, with that short porch).

There's no reason other than coicnidence that he was that much better at home. He got his fat contract, and in his mind is in Del Boca Vista right now. Not something I'd invest in.


Obviously you haven't followed Clemens too closely. Every time people said he's washed up, he comes back and wins a CY. I would NEVER bet against Clemens b/c there is a good chance that I will lose.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
Yoda
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 21344
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: 15th green...

Postby Yoda » Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:06 pm

What's even funnier is that people who are so down on Clemens are the ones taking RJ in the first round.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
Yoda
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 21344
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: 15th green...

Postby LBJackal » Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:10 pm

nuggets wrote:
LBJackal wrote:There's no reason other than coicnidence that he(Clemens) was that much better at home.


Wow, do you really believe that? See he started 20 games at home, 54% more than away. Larger sample size = greater accuracy, you know that LBJ, right? I believe that is the most starts at home for a SP last year but someone come along an correct me.

LBJackal wrote:He got his fat contract, and in his mind is in Del Boca Vista right now. Not something I'd invest in.


I'm sure Clemens mind is on the season now but he is the type of athlete that can shift his focus with great power. I'm sure he parties and vacations like none other but he also focuses on the game like none other. We are talking about one of the most focused and competitive athletes of all time.


2002: 29 GS and a 4.35 ERA
2003: 33 GS and a 3.91 ERA

Then he moves to a park that allows a LOT of HR's especially with righties on the mound, and you say it's not a fluke he shaves a run off of his ERA? At age 42? You'll never be proven wrong until the season starts so lets just wait until we see how he does.
Image

"Jack, will you call me, if you're able?"

"I've got your phone number written, in the back of my Bible."
LBJackal
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Pick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 9196
Joined: 1 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The Hotel Yorba

Postby Strasil42 » Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:34 pm

Yoda wrote:What's even funnier is that people who are so down on Clemens are the ones taking RJ in the first round.


rj went from one of the worst teams in the majors to the best. he had a healthy year last year and was dominating.

clemens stayed on his team except they lost a ton of offense and look to be a middle of the pack team. Clemens also pitches in a hitters park. Clemens also was hurt all spring.....

i fail to see whats so funny about that and see rj getting at a minimum of 10 more wins than clemens.
Strasil42
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar

Posts: 4347
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Omaha

Postby thehat » Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:50 pm

News flash: That old stadium in the Bronx where Rocket used to pitch? Not a great pitcher's park for righties. So stop with the ballpark comparisons, already. With the exception of a couple of locales (and we know what those are) the ballpark matters little if the pitcher is great. And last year, Clemens was sensational.

That said, I think he's a poor risk this year. Might not be in typical Rocket shape based on spring maladies, and the Astros are not goin to be very good. The setup guys in front of Lidge are brutal, which likely means a few less wins for all the starters.
thehat
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy Expert
Posts: 3721
Joined: 1 Jun 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Fabulous Las Vegas

Postby Strasil42 » Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:58 pm

thehat wrote:News flash: That old stadium in the Bronx where Rocket used to pitch?
Not a great pitcher's park for righties
. So stop with the ballpark comparisons, already. With the exception of a couple of locales (and we know what those are) the ballpark matters little if the pitcher is great. And last year, Clemens was sensational.

.


i always thought randy johnson was lefthanded.

Time to bump johnson wayyyyyyyyy down on my cheatsheet.
Strasil42
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar

Posts: 4347
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Omaha

Postby rainman23 » Sat Apr 02, 2005 5:45 pm

People aren't overly enthused about Clemens because he spent several years convincing us that he was no longer sensational. Good, but not upper tier. He changed teams once again...and like he's done every time he changed teams, he pitched great and won a Cy Young. This is a pattern we've seen before. So be encouraged that he's coming off a great year, but if you've been playing fantasy ball a few years you're not going to be too certain that he'll be as overpowering this year. The wild card here that we HAVEN'T seen before is the change of leagues. Did Clemens eat up the NL simply because they were unfamiliar with him, or because after years of battling tough DH's it sure was fun to breeze thru an automatic out at the bottom of the order two or three times a game? How big a factor was the somewhat novel way the 'Stros were using him? Will he continue to exploit these factors in 2005, or revert to the form of the prior few years? Nobody knows for sure, but there are enough doubts to keep him off the top of lots of our lists.
rainman23
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor


Posts: 937
Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby CubsFan7724 » Sat Apr 02, 2005 6:07 pm

Yoda wrote:What's even funnier is that people who are so down on Clemens are the ones taking RJ in the first round.

Because RJ was the rightful Cy Young. He had better numbers in everything except wins. Which is team dependent and a horrible way to hand out Cy Youngs.
Image
CubsFan7724
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Pick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 6426
Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: AKA 34=Sweetness on FFC

PreviousNext

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Izenhart, Ray Zorback and 10 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Friday, Jul. 25
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

St. Louis at Chi Cubs
(4:05 pm)
Toronto at NY Yankees
(7:05 pm)
Arizona at Philadelphia
(7:05 pm)
Washington at Cincinnati
(7:10 pm)
Boston at Tampa Bay
(7:10 pm)
indoors
San Diego at Atlanta
(7:35 pm)
Oakland at Texas
(8:05 pm)
Chi White Sox at Minnesota
(8:10 pm)
NY Mets at Milwaukee
(8:10 pm)
Cleveland at Kansas City
(8:10 pm)
Miami at Houston
(8:10 pm)
Pittsburgh at Colorado
(8:40 pm)
Detroit at LA Angels
(10:05 pm)
Baltimore at Seattle
(10:10 pm)
LA Dodgers at San Francisco
(10:15 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact