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Infante batting leadoff

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Postby brandnew » Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:43 pm

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:
LBJackal wrote:
brandnew wrote:He's been hurt this ST. He was a rookie last year...

Check out Michael Young's Rookie stats: .249/.298/.402

Most hitters struggle their rookie year.


He wasn't a rookie, it was his 3rd season in the majors, and he lost his rookie eligibility in 2003. But anyway, check out Damion Easley's rookie stats, they're probably similar. All rookies are usually bad. Infante's never actually been good, he's just had youth going for him. Just because Michael Young used to suck doesn't mean all 2B's that put up bad numbers will one day be good hitters.


yes, but he was still hurt the vast majority of ST, so the comments you posted about how awful he's been this spring really just show your own bias more than anything. Relevant numbers would be from when he's healthy, right? Like when he had an OBP well over .400 in winterball.

LBJackal wrote:If Infante had been a prospect, or had been good in the minors, or had done anything whatsoever I could see him being touted as a breakout candidate. The only reason he even played at advanced levels at such a young age was because his father was dying and he wanted to make the big leagues before he died. Not because he was highly touted. They tossed him into AAA only to see him have a .253 BA and .306 OBA in 2 seasons there.


Just because you never heard about a prospect doesnt mean he isnt good, right?

Here's a 3rd party profile of Infante written in 2003:

Bill Zarras - NABL wrote:Omar Infante was discovered and signed while playing baseball in Venezuela by the Detroit Tigers on April 28, 1999. What got the Tigers’ attention was Infante’s impressive defensive prowess. Initially, due to injuries within the organization, Omar was rushed from rookie league up to Class-A Lakeland, but quickly proved that he could hold his own. While at Double-A Erie, he was the youngest player in the Eastern League. Despite possessing only average speed, Infante has terrific range at short and always knows when and how to steal a base. In the field, he possesses soft hands, an accurate arm and can really make plays from the hole. He seldom makes errors on routine plays and he possesses terrific instincts on the field. Without a doubt, Infante’s defense is more than major-league-ready. He is also a natural-born leader, on and off the field. Offensively, Omar is a great contact hitter, despite his penchant for swinging at bad pitches, but he still needs to learn how to drive the ball better. This should come as he matures, and as he improves his strength and conditioning. He is also an adept bunter and excels at hitting-and-running and moving runners over.

FINAL ASSESSMENT:
We believe that with the improved plate discipline that Infante has demonstrated over the past two seasons, that as soon as he fills out and gets stronger, he will be a top-notch major league middle infielder, both defensively and offensively. There is only one caution with Infante, and that is that he was born with a genetic birth defect to his spine, which has given him a slight case of spondylolysis. For a short time last season, he missed some time due to a sore back. Normally, a mild condition of spondylolysis can be controlled with painkillers; however, Infante could end up having chronic back problems, due to this genetic problem. Nonetheless, Omar should go in the first round of the upcoming NABL draft.


Jackal - your assessment that he made the big leagues because his father was dying had to be one of the most ridiculous things Ive ever seen you write. Complete Hogwash.


Yeah, what he said. That's what I meant.
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Postby Rhymes_T79 » Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:54 pm

I-rod in the leadoff spot is a GREAT IDEA!!! sign me up for that bandwagon!

i like Thehat's attitude... i too find these types of discussions way more interesting.

so as i attempt to hijack this thread (this is actually more of a sidenote, than a hijack), i must bring to ur attention d'angelo jimenez, who is also a 2b leading off for his respective team. I posted a thread a while ago trying to figure out who has more upside. It was surprisingly quite an even split considering the love that infante's been getting lately. most however seemed to go with infante.

they both have similar #'s (15-15 types), however, jimenez walks a ton and has .364 OBP vs. infante's .317 OBP. as leadoff hitters, this is huge. Its obvious to me anyways, that jimenez > infante, but i feel i am still in the minority. though infante might have more HR's and SB's by seasons end, and he is younger... jimenez seems more of the logical choice in terms of consistency, plate discipline, thus runs?

ANYWAYS, IROD FOR PREZ!
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Postby brandnew » Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:16 pm

Jimenez had something like 80 walks last year. Crazy.
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Postby LBJackal » Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:29 pm

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:Jackal - your assessment that he made the big leagues because his father was dying had to be one of the most ridiculous things Ive ever seen you write. Complete Hogwash.


No, it's not hogwash, it was in an article I read a while back. The only reason he was rushed through was so his father could see him in the majors before he died. That's why then rushed him to AA when he wasn't ready yet. Otherwise he would have been in rookie ball. He did OK in AA so they moved him to AAA where he failed miserably for 2 seasons. Then to the majors where he failed miserably for 2 seasons. He may be a good fielder but he hasn't showed signs of being a good hitter... at least normal signs like actually hitting well at any level other than AA. Which is usually a requirement before you say somebody will be an All-Star in a few seasons.
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Postby KolbSaves » Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:37 pm

BREAKING NEWS

I just heard on Sports Radio 1130 the Fan that Gary Knotts' father is dying so they're promoting him from long middle relief to opening day starter. ;-7
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Postby brandnew » Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:38 pm

.766 OPS is not THAT bad for a rookie season. That's actually pretty damn good for a middle infielder in his first year with everyday at bats. Edgar Renteria is a career .746 OPS hitter, and Furcal has a .751 career OPS.
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Postby LBJackal » Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:47 pm

I'm not saying last year was horrible, if he repeats that it should be considered a big success. The power came out of nowhere and there's nothing to suggest it will continue. He had 11 career HR's including all levels in almost 1000 AB's. Then he hits 16 HR in 500 AB's, in Comerica Park no less. Now, you can take that as a kid discovering hidden power, or you can take it as a fluke.
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:51 pm

LBJackal wrote:
Cornbread Maxwell wrote:Jackal - your assessment that he made the big leagues because his father was dying had to be one of the most ridiculous things Ive ever seen you write. Complete Hogwash.


No, it's not hogwash, it was in an article I read a while back. The only reason he was rushed through was so his father could see him in the majors before he died. That's why then rushed him to AA when he wasn't ready yet. Otherwise he would have been in rookie ball. He did OK in AA so they moved him to AAA where he failed miserably for 2 seasons. Then to the majors where he failed miserably for 2 seasons. He may be a good fielder but he hasn't showed signs of being a good hitter... at least normal signs like actually hitting well at any level other than AA. Which is usually a requirement before you say somebody will be an All-Star in a few seasons.


So, when he was rated the best defensive SS of the International league at age 19/20, he just wasnt ready to move up, huh?

No one is arguing that he was ready to be brought to the club, Detroit absolutely rushed him through. But this was in 2002 and into 2003 - I guess the new front office simply realized that Warren Morris just wasnt going to cut it as the teams future 2B, so why not let the kid who was their future learn at the highest level? Same thing with Bonderman - these are the casualties of the 2003 season. As long as they werent traumatized, why not learn at the highest level?

Obviously I have an uphill argument here with Infante because LBJ is correct in that he really hasent hit for power or avg as a 21-23 yo playing in the big leagues or as the youngest player in AA prior to that. It really doesnt matter that he was always considered a good contact hitter with decent patience and base running ability - if he was always the youngest guy on the field while being rushed through his learning curve, poor stats will more than likely happen. Its the ability to look through the stats though - thats what I am talking about - giving a young kid the benefit of the doubt. He has shown the ability to hit, and he goes on slumps just like everyone else. The true measure of progression is when those slumps get shorter and shorter, and I think Infante is demonstrating that over the last yr and through winterball.

We'll see. ;-)
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Postby slomo007 » Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:52 pm

LBJackal wrote:I'm not saying last year was horrible, if he repeats that it should be considered a big success. The power came out of nowhere and there's nothing to suggest it will continue. He had 11 career HR's including all levels in almost 1000 AB's. Then he hits 16 HR in 500 AB's, in Comerica Park no less. Now, you can take that as a kid discovering hidden power, or you can take it as a fluke.


A 30 year old who does that....fluke.

A 23 year old who does that....not fluke.

Maybe he just benefitted from better hitting instructors/equipment. Maybe there was a flaw in his swing that he fixed....it's really hard to say, but I don't think it was a fluke.
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Postby wrveres » Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:31 pm

KolbSaves wrote:BREAKING NEWS

I just heard on Sports Radio 1130 the Fan that Gary Knotts' father is dying so they're promoting him from long middle relief to opening day starter. ;-7

stop ... stop ..

I spit soda all over .. :-o

someone needs to get Kolb his own half hour on Comedy Central. :-b
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