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Hideki Matsui......Hittin cleanup? MVP candidate?

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Postby Conner » Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:49 pm

lesgrant wrote:How about:

1. Jeter
2. A-Rod
3. Giambi
4. Sheff
5. Hideki
6. Posada
7. Sierra
8. Williams
9. Womack

or when Giambi is the DH

7. Williams
8. Martinez
9. Womack


Giambi will be the DH more often than not, and he probably won't be batting third. Torre sees Giambi as a guy who hits homers to drive runs in...not a guy who should be batting ahead of other sluggers and tring to score runs. A guy like Sheffield isn't fast, but he's definitely better on the bases than Giambi.
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Postby lesgrant » Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:49 pm

Subversive wrote:If anyone ever refers to me as a Can, I will punch them in the face.






(just kidding, I'll punch them in the crotch)


At least you're not a Can't. (Be gentle, I forgot to wear my cup today.)
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Postby lesgrant » Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:56 pm

Conner wrote:
lesgrant wrote:How about:

1. Jeter
2. A-Rod
3. Giambi
4. Sheff
5. Hideki
6. Posada
7. Sierra
8. Williams
9. Womack

or when Giambi is the DH

7. Williams
8. Martinez
9. Womack


Giambi will be the DH more often than not, and he probably won't be batting third. Torre sees Giambi as a guy who hits homers to drive runs in...not a guy who should be batting ahead of other sluggers and tring to score runs. A guy like Sheffield isn't fast, but he's definitely better on the bases than Giambi.


I would agree except Torre has used Giambi in the 3 spot quite often. In 2002 and 2003 Giambi had the most plate appearances in the 3 spot.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlbhist/teams ... &year=2002

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlbhist/teams ... &year=2003
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Postby Conner » Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:03 pm

lesgrant wrote:
Conner wrote:
lesgrant wrote:How about:

1. Jeter
2. A-Rod
3. Giambi
4. Sheff
5. Hideki
6. Posada
7. Sierra
8. Williams
9. Womack

or when Giambi is the DH

7. Williams
8. Martinez
9. Womack


Giambi will be the DH more often than not, and he probably won't be batting third. Torre sees Giambi as a guy who hits homers to drive runs in...not a guy who should be batting ahead of other sluggers and tring to score runs. A guy like Sheffield isn't fast, but he's definitely better on the bases than Giambi.


I would agree except Torre has used Giambi in the 3 spot quite often. In 2002 and 2003 Giambi had the most plate appearances in the 3 spot.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlbhist/teams ... &year=2002

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlbhist/teams ... &year=2003


That was when they had the likes of Robin Ventura, Shane Spencer and Paul O'nell, instead of A-Rod, Sheff and Matsui...

Giambi was also coming off of MVP type seasons then, in which he was actually healthy...he's not, now. His sore knee shouldn't affect his hitting much, but it will keep him from batting third.


Matsui is also a very good baserunner, by the way...I'd be happy to have him as the 3rd hitter, ahead of Sheffield and Giambi.
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Postby raiders_umpire » Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:54 pm

if matsui hits 4th all season, i see him putting up MVP numbers this year.... not saying he will win the MVP due to arod, vlad, manny in the AL as well,,,,but i do believe hidekis numbers will rival theirs and past winners of the MVP......
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Postby lesgrant » Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:37 pm

Conner wrote:
lesgrant wrote:
Conner wrote:
lesgrant wrote:How about:

1. Jeter
2. A-Rod
3. Giambi
4. Sheff
5. Hideki
6. Posada
7. Sierra
8. Williams
9. Womack

or when Giambi is the DH

7. Williams
8. Martinez
9. Womack


Giambi will be the DH more often than not, and he probably won't be batting third. Torre sees Giambi as a guy who hits homers to drive runs in...not a guy who should be batting ahead of other sluggers and tring to score runs. A guy like Sheffield isn't fast, but he's definitely better on the bases than Giambi.


I would agree except Torre has used Giambi in the 3 spot quite often. In 2002 and 2003 Giambi had the most plate appearances in the 3 spot.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlbhist/teams ... &year=2002

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlbhist/teams ... &year=2003


That was when they had the likes of Robin Ventura, Shane Spencer and Paul O'nell, instead of A-Rod, Sheff and Matsui...

Giambi was also coming off of MVP type seasons then, in which he was actually healthy...he's not, now. His sore knee shouldn't affect his hitting much, but it will keep him from batting third.


Matsui is also a very good baserunner, by the way...I'd be happy to have him as the 3rd hitter, ahead of Sheffield and Giambi.


Yes Hideki is good on the bases. Although, Giambi was never that fast on the bases when he batted 3rd.

My only problem with him batting 3rd is that Giambi can't really protect Sheffield.

Jeter
Arod
Matsui
Sheff
Giambi
Posada
Sierra
Williams
Womack

After Sheff, there's a noticeable drop-off, thus neutralizing his power. If I'm a pitcher I'd look to work around Sheff and take my chances with anyone after him every time through the order - especially while the jury is still out on Jason.

And performance wise, Matsui would do much more damage in the 5 slot and Jason would see better pitches in the 3 slot than if their positions were reversed.

But it all depends on Giambi. If he's on, then he'll bat third. If not, then he'll be much further down in the lineup. Torre seems pretty much set in hitting Hideki 4 or below. He's said in the past that he wants Matsui (while he's still "developing" his power) to take cuts as opposed to working the count and drawing walks.
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Postby Conner » Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:47 pm

lesgrant wrote:
Conner wrote:
lesgrant wrote:
Conner wrote:
lesgrant wrote:How about:

1. Jeter
2. A-Rod
3. Giambi
4. Sheff
5. Hideki
6. Posada
7. Sierra
8. Williams
9. Womack

or when Giambi is the DH

7. Williams
8. Martinez
9. Womack


Giambi will be the DH more often than not, and he probably won't be batting third. Torre sees Giambi as a guy who hits homers to drive runs in...not a guy who should be batting ahead of other sluggers and tring to score runs. A guy like Sheffield isn't fast, but he's definitely better on the bases than Giambi.


I would agree except Torre has used Giambi in the 3 spot quite often. In 2002 and 2003 Giambi had the most plate appearances in the 3 spot.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlbhist/teams ... &year=2002

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlbhist/teams ... &year=2003


That was when they had the likes of Robin Ventura, Shane Spencer and Paul O'nell, instead of A-Rod, Sheff and Matsui...

Giambi was also coming off of MVP type seasons then, in which he was actually healthy...he's not, now. His sore knee shouldn't affect his hitting much, but it will keep him from batting third.


Matsui is also a very good baserunner, by the way...I'd be happy to have him as the 3rd hitter, ahead of Sheffield and Giambi.


Yes Hideki is good on the bases. Although, Giambi was never that fast on the bases when he batted 3rd.

My only problem with him batting 3rd is that Giambi can't really protect Sheffield.

Jeter
Arod
Matsui
Sheff
Giambi
Posada
Sierra
Williams
Womack

After Sheff, there's a noticeable drop-off, thus neutralizing his power. If I'm a pitcher I'd look to work around Sheff and take my chances with anyone after him every time through the order - especially while the jury is still out on Jason.

And performance wise, Matsui would do much more damage in the 5 slot and Jason would see better pitches in the 3 slot than if their positions were reversed.

But it all depends on Giambi. If he's on, then he'll bat third. If not, then he'll be much further down in the lineup. Torre seems pretty much set in hitting Hideki 4 or below. He's said in the past that he wants Matsui (while he's still "developing" his power) to take cuts as opposed to working the count and drawing walks.

I just don't agree with you.


Giambi is a power hitter, with a bad knee.

He'll bat below the other guys who get on base a lot...not in front of them.

I don't really care what Torre did with Matsui and Giambi in previous years...Matsui obviously made huge improvements last year, and Giambi is coming off of injuries and a terrible season. And like I said...When Giambi was batting 4rd in 2002, the Yanks lineup was incredibly different. What happened then is pretty irrelevant.



I think you put a bit too much importance on "protection", by the way. Sheffield doesn't need it, first of all. Also...if Giambi isn't healthy, they're not going to bat him third so that he gets more protection....they'll move him down, and matsui will definitely bat 3rd or 4th. If Giambi plays well, they'll bat him cleanup or fifth.


No matter what, I don't see Matsui hitting any lower than 5th *which is the real point of the thread).
Last edited by Conner on Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby blankman » Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:53 pm

This is my lineup

Jeter
Alex
Sheff
Matsui
Giambi
Posada
Bernie
Tino
Womack

screw the left/right switch off
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Postby gtabaplayr » Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:28 pm

Having Giambi and Posada after Sheff isn't protection? That is just plain wrong.
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Postby Frances The Mute » Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:48 pm

This is my lineup

Jeter
Alex
Sheff
Matsui
Giambi
Posada
Bernie
Tino
Womack

screw the left/right switch off



That looks right on.
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