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The low end SS's

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Postby kev921 » Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:53 am

Matsui
Berroa
Crosby (batted .234?)
Wilson
Upton

I had this dilema last night for my MI and wanted to pick from the top three in this list. I had them in this order and by the time it was my turn I was left with Crosby. I worry about the famed Sophmore jinx (Berroa battled through this last year).
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Postby agchris02 » Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:25 pm

im not sure why everyone is down on an all-star wilson with a plus .300 batting average....
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Postby donny23 » Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:24 pm

so0perspam wrote:Kaz Matsui
Crosby
Berroa
Wilson
Upton

Hey go_jays_go, want to give me a case at all of why Jack Wilson tops that list? :-?



This list looks right on to me. Sure, Crosby only hit .234 last year, but he was a rookie. Now that he's had a year to adjust to the majors, I expect he'll improve on that at least to .250. Although this is still low, he has amazing power potential for a SS and also has above average speed.
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Postby kev921 » Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:40 pm

donny23 wrote:
so0perspam wrote:Kaz Matsui
Crosby
Berroa
Wilson
Upton

Hey go_jays_go, want to give me a case at all of why Jack Wilson tops that list? :-?



This list looks right on to me. Sure, Crosby only hit .234 last year, but he was a rookie. Now that he's had a year to adjust to the majors, I expect he'll improve on that at least to .250. Although this is still low, he has amazing power potential for a SS and also has above average speed.


Being ROY doesn't guarantee success, look at the last two AL ROY's. Angel Berroa's rookie season, he batted .287, 17 HR, 73 RBI, 92 R's & 21 SB. With your reasoning, why did the 2003 ROY then proceed to follow with a .262 avg, 8 HR, 43 RBI, 72 R's & only 14 SB's? Why did the 2002 ROY Eric Hinske go from batting .279, 24 HR, 84 RBI, 99 R's down to .243, 12 HR's, 63 RBI's & 74 R's.

I think that there should be some caution exercised with 2nd year players.
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Postby Mercer Boy » Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:43 pm

agchris02 wrote:im not sure why everyone is down on an all-star wilson with a plus .300 batting average....

Probably assume him to be a "one-year" wonder. :*)

Yeah, I doubt he'll bat .300 again...but he is young and could have turned the corner. I'd love it if he did, though. He started off ultra-hot and cooled off some last year (like the other Wilson did), but he still did OK.

I don't think he'll ever hit 20 HR's or steal many bases or anything like that, but if nothing else, he could be a good filler if he does continue to hit as well as he did last year. ;-D
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Postby shortsavage » Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:10 pm

kev921 wrote:
Being ROY doesn't guarantee success, look at the last two AL ROY's. Angel Berroa's rookie season, he batted .287, 17 HR, 73 RBI, 92 R's & 21 SB. With your reasoning, why did the 2003 ROY then proceed to follow with a .262 avg, 8 HR, 43 RBI, 72 R's & only 14 SB's? Why did the 2002 ROY Eric Hinske go from batting .279, 24 HR, 84 RBI, 99 R's down to .243, 12 HR's, 63 RBI's & 74 R's.

I think that there should be some caution exercised with 2nd year players.


Keep in mind that Hinske was a 17th round draft pick, while Berroa was signed as an amateur free agent. So, neither of these former Oakland Athletics farmhands have the magical first round pick aura, like Crosby, around their name. Cosby is also a product of Long Beach State's coveted baseball program. I'd say that he is more likely to have a direct path to stardom than your two comparisons.
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Postby Havok1517 » Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:21 pm

is Kahlil Greene still there? U put his numbers up to Crosby's and adjust them accordingly throughout the year and Greene's numbers are far better.
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Postby donny23 » Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:24 pm

kev921 wrote:Being ROY doesn't guarantee success, look at the last two AL ROY's. Angel Berroa's rookie season, he batted .287, 17 HR, 73 RBI, 92 R's & 21 SB. With your reasoning, why did the 2003 ROY then proceed to follow with a .262 avg, 8 HR, 43 RBI, 72 R's & only 14 SB's? Why did the 2002 ROY Eric Hinske go from batting .279, 24 HR, 84 RBI, 99 R's down to .243, 12 HR's, 63 RBI's & 74 R's.

I think that there should be some caution exercised with 2nd year players.


Who said anything about ROY? The A's have been high on this guy for years. His expectations and raw ability are much higher than either of those guys. The A's chose to get rid of Tejada (yes, they had to because of money, but it didn't have to be Tejada that they chose to let go) because they were so high on this guy. I brought up that he was only a rookie because I feel that he didn't even show what he is capable of yet. I don't care what awards he got or anyone else got. We are talking about upside here. Beltre had hype for years because he was so talented. Sure, he took awhile to meet those expectations, but his talent finally did show. Crosby has tons of talent. Will it show this year for sure? Of course not, but I'll take a risk on his upside over most of the other guys on the list (except Matsui who I feel is a sure fire 15 homers, 15 steals guy this year at least with a .280+ batting average). By the way, all I projected was that he'd hit over .250. I don't feel like I'm overstating capabilities for this year or anything. He's very capable of .250+, 25 homers, 80 rbi's, 10-15 steals.
Last edited by donny23 on Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby agchris02 » Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:24 pm

when i posted this list, looked over the numbers and projections and have K greene under all of those guys, i realize a lot of people are high on him, i just dont see him being worth a roster spot in a 12 team league, probably not in a 14 team league either (at least not as a starter) -- id rather have any of those over him

Still trying to determine wholl be better out of kaz, wilson, and crosby -- think those are the top 3 with my order right now being

Kaw
Crosby
Wilson

though its close
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Postby pomplona's finest » Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:55 pm

Batting at the top of the Cardinal lineup, I'd throw Eckstein out there as a possible deep sleeper candidate. He can't help you out power-wise but he could be a valueable R or SB contributor.
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