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Why so down on the Vaz?

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Why so down on the Vaz?

Postby GSes » Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:14 am

Here a guy who just in 2003 went

13 wins
3.24 ERA
1.11 whip
241 Strikeouts

for the horrible Montreal Expos.


Then he gets traded to the Yankees, and EVERYONE goes crazy bonkers over him like he the hottest thing that ever lived. People were hyping him for the 2004 Cy Young in New York.

And I responded by saying.........slow down! Yes he is very talented and yes he has cy young stuff, but he is going to need time to adjust to both the

American League (where there are DH's and overall quality of the hitters is much higher)
and
New York (the new york spotlight curse)


Vazquez seemed to be doing just fine actaully prooving me wrong by going
3-2
2.55 ERA
0.82 whip
29 K's

in the month of April

then he fell apart and had a bad month in may but then in June he put together another great month of

4-1
2.66 ERA
1.13 whip
31 K's

All this adding up to Vazuqez MAKING THE AL All Star Team and finishing his 1st half of his 1st year career in the AL with

10-5 record
3.56 ERA
1.15 whip
95 K's





Then the guy just fell apart after the All Star break similar to MArk Mulder for the A's. Vazquez however apparently had injuries that the Yankees had him pitch through.

They get mad and trade him back to the National League (where he pitches obvioulsy better just like anyone would)

My point is this how can you not be high on Vazuqez this season?

because he is on the lolely dbacks?

didn't stop anyone when he was on the lolely expos

Javier Vazquez is a mega sleeper/steal b/c it seems like every1 is avoiding him like the plague.


what a mistake, I fully expect him to put up similar numbers to what he did from 2001-2003 with the expos

13 Wins
3.50 ERA
1.15 whip
200 Strikeouts

basically thats a borderline #1 fantasy starter and a TOP #2

this is why he is on most of my teams this year (and he was on none of my teams last year)


By the way he retired the first 16 Mariners he faced today in Spring Training.
He is back in the National League which he spent the previous 3 seasons dominating team after team.
He is back on a quiet and spotlight less team and city wit the Arizona Diamondbacks

my point being there is no way Javier Vazquez shouldn't be in your top 20 starters. And for ppl like me well i got him in my top 15.

you can nab him pretty late in the draft too, I think i got him in the 9th or 10 round of the cafe challenge.

what a steal ;-D
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Postby hybrid » Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:21 am

Because people have short memories, espcially in sports. We live in the "what have you done for me lately" era.
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Postby GSes » Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:22 am

hybrid wrote:Because people have short memories, espcially in sports. We live in the "what have you done for me lately" era.



thats why i win at this fantasy baseball game.

I always remeber what guys did 2 years ago and why ;-D
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Postby so0perspam » Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:22 am

Vasquez --> worn down (back to back 230 IP seasons), K rate falling, big bust candidate, fastball ineffective

Vasquez threw so many curveballs and changeups last season because his fastball lost a ton of velocity and just wasn't there at all. I highly doubt he wasn't a fastball pitcher during his 241 K ride in Montreal. That fastball failure in the second half of last season scares me, and as seen in the last half of last season, I think he was forced to become a curve and changeup pitcher, something that doesn't work for him.
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Postby TheYanks04 » Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:15 am

He beats up on TB in April...big whoop....same like Brown.

He pitches an OK June after a not so great May.

He gets BOMBED the second half.

To this day Vazquez claimed he did not have an injury. And that sort of thing is not going to stay hidden around teh NY Media for long. Bottom line is he lost velocity on his fastbal and his curve was more often a hanging birthday present to hitters. And then of course there is the wuss factor...man looked like he was going to cry in the playoffs on the mound.

He did not make a lot of friends among the Yankee fans...and he did not go to Chavez Ravine to pitch.
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Postby donny23 » Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:11 am

I think he'll be a great bargain this year. Don't count on his as your ace or even #2, but if you have him as your #3 or #4, I don't think you can go wrong. I am a yanks fan too "TheYanks04" and just as bitter as you, but I picked up both Brown and Vazquez in my drafts (Vazquez as my #4 starter and Brown as my #6 - Millwood as my #5). I got some pitching insurance on my bench for Brown in particular, but when he'll be in there, he'll be fine. Bitterness has to be put aside in fantasy baseball drafting. Of course, it also has to do with intuition, so i guess you think both will underperform regardless.
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Postby j_d_mcnugent » Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:01 pm

TheYanks04 wrote: Bottom line is he lost velocity on his fastbal and his curve was more often a hanging birthday present to hitters.


all reports out of ST say he is throwing low 90's which is where he was at in montreal. he has always relied on good placement of his fastball rather than blowing it by people. all reports out of ST say his breaking pitches look great. draw your own conclusions but i see no lingering effects of his 2nd half struggles.
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Postby SoxWillNeverWinAgain » Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:05 pm

he's in a hitters park in AZ.. the ball flies outta there. Also I think he may try too hard this year..with him wanting to show the yankees that they made a mistake. He could put too much pressure on himself.
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Postby donny23 » Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:12 pm

If you want to talk about the ballpark, I can buy into that. The "I want to show them they were wrong" reason just isn't working for me though. If Jeff Weaver can leave NY and pitch pretty well, a pitcher like Javy can for sure. Some guys are just not made to play in NY.

SoxWillNeverWinAgain wrote:he's in a hitters park in AZ.. the ball flies outta there. Also I think he may try too hard this year..with him wanting to show the yankees that they made a mistake. He could put too much pressure on himself.
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Postby Conner » Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:21 pm

There's really not much reason to say that he wasn't "made to play in NY".

He pitched perfectly fine at the beginning of the season.

As the year went on, his mechanics definitely changed, and the velocity on his pitches went down quite a bit...probably due to pitching a whole lot of innings over the last few years.
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