Drew, Patterson, Halladay or Vazquez - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Drew, Patterson, Halladay or Vazquez

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Postby warrick95 » Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:22 pm

Halladay
C-Pat
Drew
Vazquez

If you don't need speed, go with Drew. He's risky, though.
warrick95
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 5440
Joined: 27 May 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The empty seat next to the Tampa Bay heckler

Postby bselig » Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:37 pm

You guys must be battling severe crack addictions to be ranking Patterson (assuming this is Corey) ahead of Drew (assuming this is JD)...unless you're super scared of an injury or something. JD Drew gives you Corey Pattersonesque numbers WHEN HE'S INJURED...and while Dodger stadium is obviously worse for hitters, its effect won't be pronounced enough to make a superb hitter worse than a mediocre one. Hallady, if he bounces back, could be more valuable than Drew
bselig Beginner
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar

Posts: 948
Joined: 3 Feb 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby warrick95 » Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:39 pm

Power/speed of Patterson's type is rare. I can find somebody else who'll put up numbers close to .300-30-100 elsewhere, but the power/speed players are extremely limited.
warrick95
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 5440
Joined: 27 May 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The empty seat next to the Tampa Bay heckler

Postby bselig » Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:44 pm

Speed is nice but there's no way i'd be willing to give up that much hitting in favor of 20 or so extra stolen bases...outfield positions are spots where you need guys who can jack baseballs out of the park and hit for average (unless you're talking about a guy who has a shot at stealing sixty)...Patterson doesn't have enough power to be a power/speed guy in the outfield...if he played second base with those numbers, then sure, but in the OF he is mediocrity embodied
bselig Beginner
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar

Posts: 948
Joined: 3 Feb 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby warrick95 » Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:56 pm

Corey Patterson's numbers last year:
.266-24-72-91 R-32 SB
The average is a bit low, but he hit .298 before getting hurt in 2003. I see definite room for improvement. He's young, toolsy, athletic...working on plate discipline. I think he'll get above .270 perhaps to .275 this year. His power will continue coming but probably cap at 30.

But back to the power/speed thing. It's a LUXURY to get those extra 20 SBs from Patterson. HRs are a dime a dozen. JD only hit seven more homers than Patterson. I'll GLADLY take the SBs.

JD has always been very injury prone. He's a tremendous risk. We all know that. He's overvalued this year.

The interesting part in your argument is that teams can be molded every which way. You can draft a Carl Crawford in the first round (no power from an OF spot) and then fill with infielders that can hit for power (Kent, Boone). There's not just one specific way to make a team, like you're saying.

There are not that many players that will give you stolen bases. In a given season, most roto teams have much less SBs than they do HRs. Why? Because they're simply so much scarcer.

Last year, there were these power/speed players:
Beltran
Abreu
Rodriguez
Patterson
Jeter
Sanders
Hunter
Cameron

I'm sorry, but that's simply not a lot. And the latter three really aren't great options. They're more 20-20 and it may not happen again.

Obtaining power/speed players allows you to not take one basestealer that will KILL you in HR and RBIs.
warrick95
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 5440
Joined: 27 May 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The empty seat next to the Tampa Bay heckler

Postby bselig » Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:11 pm

It's not a lot because you are leaving out a number of guys, Matt Lawton and M.Giles immediately come to mind, but i'm going to assume there are others out there...Patterson isn't a thirty thirty guy, he might have the POTENTIAL to be one, but he's never done it and the likelihood of him approaching it isn't particularly high. You can definitely use Corey Patterson effectively, perhaps mix and matched with other well rounded guys, but steals aren't scare enough in major league baseball to make him better than JD Drew, a player with about a 25 point higher career batting average and a much higher ops (i play in an ops league) who is a lock for 100 runs and thirty homers and should get close 100 rbi. The likelihood of injury is something that might knock Drew down to Patterson's level, but I'd rather take take a Matt Lawton later if I'm looking for a guy who can steal some bases (sb are only 1 out of 9 batting cats in my league) than jump the gun on a mediocre hitter like CPatterson
bselig Beginner
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar

Posts: 948
Joined: 3 Feb 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby Amazinz » Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:29 pm

You make some good points for an OPS league that uses 9 hitting cats but this is a 5x5 league where CPat is much better than you are making him out to be.
Image
Maine has a good swing for a pitcher but on anything that moves, he has no chance. And if it's a fastball, it has to be up in the zone. Basically, the pitcher has to hit his bat. - Mike Pelfrey
Amazinz
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeWeb SupporterPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 18800
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: in Canada, toughening up figure skaters

Postby warrick95 » Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:39 pm

bselig wrote:It's not a lot because you are leaving out a number of guys, Matt Lawton and M.Giles immediately come to mind, but i'm going to assume there are others out there...Patterson isn't a thirty thirty guy, he might have the POTENTIAL to be one, but he's never done it and the likelihood of him approaching it isn't particularly high. You can definitely use Corey Patterson effectively, perhaps mix and matched with other well rounded guys, but steals aren't scare enough in major league baseball to make him better than JD Drew, a player with about a 25 point higher career batting average and a much higher ops (i play in an ops league) who is a lock for 100 runs and thirty homers and should get close 100 rbi. The likelihood of injury is something that might knock Drew down to Patterson's level, but I'd rather take take a Matt Lawton later if I'm looking for a guy who can steal some bases (sb are only 1 out of 9 batting cats in my league) than jump the gun on a mediocre hitter like CPatterson


Yes, I forgot about Giles because I was looking at last year's SB lists. But there are not that many more. If you care to give me names, go ahead. Don't assume without actually knowing.

Matt Lawton is a joke. His previous batting average for the last three years prior to last one averages out to .244. On top of that, he only played in a combined 261 games those three years. What does that say? A declining, injury-prone player. He's 33, I should add. He's on the down and down while Patterson is on the up and up. Shall I also add that Lawton was rolling before the all-star break with a .305 average with 15 homers, but shot down to his normal self in the second half, hitting .239 with 5 taters? No way I'd even touch Matt Lawton in a draft period. I'd be better off with C-Patt and taking a player like Burrell or Holliday late then a Drew/Lawton combo.

In an OPS league, I'd take Drew, too. But, the owner here specifically mentioned that it was a 5X5 league, where steals are 1/5 of the hitting categories. They are very critical and thus Corey Patterson is the better pick.

Drew is NOT a lock for .300-30-100. Any Cardinal fan can testify to that.
warrick95
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 5440
Joined: 27 May 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The empty seat next to the Tampa Bay heckler

Postby Pedantic » Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:39 pm

Paul DePodesta is not stupid. If Drew is good enough to take the reins over someone like Beltre in DePo's mind, then I have no problem believing that Drew will continue to post outstanding numbers over the next few years.

Patterson's combination of power and speed is nice, but his speed is really the only thing that sets him apart from Drew. Drew should easily best him in every other category, not to mention post double digit steals, which reduces Patterson's advantage significantly. Considering that Drew stole at an eighty percent clip, it's even possible (though unlikely) that he could push fifteen or twenty steals.

Also consider the following: when batting first or second, Patterson averaged 15.75 at-bats per stolen base. Batting seventh, he averaged 116 at-bats per stolen base (yes, with a grand total of one). Combine that knowledge with the likelihood that Patterson will be spending a lot of time at the bottom of the order, and, voilà, you have a very expensive Matt Lawton (who I've noticed doesn't get nearly the attention around these parts as does Patterson ;-)).

So, in summary, Drew's advantages in every other category far outweigh Patterson's (slight) advantage in steals. Incidentally, Drew is also the more balanced player.
Image
Pedantic
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicEagle EyeCafe Musketeer
Posts: 6725
Joined: 5 Dec 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Funny movie quote that everyone knows

Postby warrick95 » Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:41 pm

I might add that I have not and will not draft Corey Patterson in any league, because I feel that he is overrated. However, I'm not touching JD Drew, either.

I really don't think DePo is going to let his huge investment run too much...especially that injury-prone an investment.

I'll say it again. I'll take Patterson and Holliday over Drew and Lawton anyday.
warrick95
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 5440
Joined: 27 May 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The empty seat next to the Tampa Bay heckler

PreviousNext

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Izenhart, unioreimi and 6 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Wednesday, Oct. 22
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

San Francisco at Kansas City
(8:07 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact