EDIT: BTW, Ishii is not a fine #3 starter. He never has been. Sure, he's shown flashes of brilliance, but when your career WHIP is higher than Bartolo Colon's cholersterol, then we have a problem. Ishii couldn't even keep his starting job in the injury-ridden Los Angeles rotation last year in one of the best pitching parks in the majors. What makes you think that he's anything other than terrible?
you can say what you want but the guy wins games. hes won 13 or more games 2 of the last three years. im not saying hes fantasy material, but hes a definate number three pitcher in the majors.
As a Dodgers fan who saw most of Ishii's games last season, I'll say that 80% of that win total is because of luck, not because of pitching ability. I can't tell you how many times Ishii gave up multiple run innings only to have the "mighty" Dodger offense come out of nowhere to bail him out. If you have Ishii's run support to Odalis Perez last season, he would've won 20 games and been a candidate for the Cy Young in the NL.
[size=10]"Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument." [/size]
look around the league at everyones starting rotation, lets not just base everything on the stacked teams, this guy would be a welcomed 3rd pitcher on probably 20 or more teams in baseball.
beltrans_boy wrote:If you have Ishii's run support to Odalis Perez last season, he would've won 20 games and been a candidate for the Cy Young in the NL.
Amen bruthah! I owned Odalis last season and I could not BELIEVE how little help the Dodger bats gave him start after start after start!
I joked back in July or August that Odalis should call a lawyer and sue the Dodgers for non-support.
The Miner Part 2 wrote:look around the league at everyones starting rotation, lets not just base everything on the stacked teams, this guy would be a welcomed 3rd pitcher on probably 20 or more teams in baseball.
Two questions:
1) Why wasn't he the third starter for the Dodgers last season?
2) Why isn't he the third starter for the Mets?
Third starters (in no particular order) as currently defined by the Rotoworld depth charts I'd rather have pitch for my major league club than Kaz Ishii:
1. Carlos Zambrano (CHC)
2. Carl Pavano (NYY)
3. Al Leiter (FLA)
4. Odalis Perez (LAD)
5. Orlando Hernandez (CHW)
6. Tomo Ohka (WAS)
7. Brandon Webb (ARI)
8. David Bush (TOR)
9. David Wells (BOS)
10. Andy Pettitte (HOU)
11. Carlos Silva (MIN)
12. Brian Lawrence (SD)
13. Mike Hampton (ATL)
14. Kris Benson (NYM)
15. Ramon Ortiz (CIN)
16. Dan Haren (OAK)
17. Vicente Padilla (PHI)
18. Eric Bedard BAL
19. Matt Morris STL
20. Chris Capuano(MIL)
21. Gil Meche (SEA)
22. Jason Johnson (DET)
23. Scott Kazmir (TB)
24. Jarrod Washburn (LAA)
25. Kevin Millwood (CLE)
In my eyes that puts him ahead of:
1. Mark Redman (PIT)
2. Kirk Rueter (SFO)
3. Chan Ho Park (TEX)
4. Brian Anderson (KC)
5. Shawn Chacon (COL)
That's some exclusive company. I also wonder what Ishii's ERA would look like if he had to pitch in Colorado like Chacon does, and a significant portion of the 100 walks he allows a season get to trot home on the long fly balls Ishii loves to give up. Those may be outs in Chavez Ravine, but not many other places in the league. Ishii is below league average for a pitcher. That slots him in as a fourth starter at best. I'd be fine with letting him chew innings as the fifth man on pretty much any major league staff, which is exactly where the Mets will use him. The ability to win at least 13 games a season for three seasons, first off isn't an ability but greatly subject to run support and bullpen strength, doesn't make you an average or above average major league pitcher.
looptid wrote:I also wonder what Ishii's ERA would look like if he had to pitch in Colorado like Chacon does, and a significant portion of the 100 walks he allows a season get to trot home on the long fly balls Ishii loves to give up. Those may be outs in Chavez Ravine, but not many other places in the league.
Chavez Ravine does not limit HRs. It's the foul territory that makes it the pitcher's park that it is.
Ishii's coming to Shea which does limit HRs a lot. So that will help him but the key to Ishii's success will be his control. I'd prefer Trax but I guess Ishii is a better option than Heilman or Ginter at this point.
Maine has a good swing for a pitcher but on anything that moves, he has no chance. And if it's a fastball, it has to be up in the zone. Basically, the pitcher has to hit his bat. - Mike Pelfrey
And it only cost them Phillips, who pretty much blows. Still going to be a lot of free passes and a lot of men on base. Which when combined with Piazza's non-arm, is not a good thing.
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by beltrans_boy » Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:27 pm 
