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I'm the Commish and I Suspect Corruption

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Postby TheYanks04 » Sat Mar 19, 2005 2:53 pm

Close watch? For what? Baltran is a round 1 player for Thome a round 2 or 3. They counter with Foulke for Dotel (Foulke is a much better closer than Dotel imo and hardly in Foulke's class)...and then trade two bottom tier SPs is Westbrook and Webb. How is that that bad for either side? Webb is hardly Tim Hudson out there. And neither is Westbrook.
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Postby CubsFan7724 » Sat Mar 19, 2005 3:03 pm

So hes trading with him because he feels sorry for him, and he knows hes getting shafted? Smells like collusion to me. Any trade in which you knowingly weaken your team to help another, on purpose, is collusion. Veto that. He shouldn't have told you, and he would have gotten away with it by pretending to be an idiot.
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Postby TheYanks04 » Sat Mar 19, 2005 3:24 pm

I would still like to know how this is a lopsided trade? You make it sound like he traded Santana for Kelvim Escobar. Thome and Foulke for Beltran and Dotel...what is the problem? You think Webb or Westbrook are some superstars or something? 2 throw-ins. I am missing something here because this does not even warrant an objection from a conservatieve commish (like myself). Someone paying a bit much for a closer upgrade...so what?
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Postby raiders_umpire » Sat Mar 19, 2005 4:50 pm

cubsfan18 wrote:Thank you for all of your advice. I have decided not to make them trade back, but instead to let both owners know that they are under a close watch, and if something like this happens again that they will be reprimanded. I appreciate your help!



i think u made the right decision... the trade is not vetoable imo...in fact it is pretty fair imo....
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Postby dannahann » Sat Mar 19, 2005 5:47 pm

TheYanks04 wrote:I would still like to know how this is a lopsided trade? You make it sound like he traded Santana for Kelvim Escobar. Thome and Foulke for Beltran and Dotel...what is the problem? You think Webb or Westbrook are some superstars or something? 2 throw-ins. I am missing something here because this does not even warrant an objection from a conservatieve commish (like myself). Someone paying a bit much for a closer upgrade...so what?

I agree, the trade isn't really unfair to begin with. Could a guy get more for Beltran from someone completely immersed in the hype...certainly. But this deal may well favor the Thome side as the season plays out. I think Beltran's original owner was simply offering up a lame excuse becuase he may have been oversensitive to possible league razzing. He probably had designs on Thome n Foulke all along and could likely finish stronger from this deal. Lighten up on him (and your league) is my recommendation. You'll want to reserve the big hammer for truely aggregious acts that might occur down the road.
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Postby Secret Avatar » Sat Mar 19, 2005 10:05 pm

I think you made the right decision. We could argue until the cows come home whether making a trade that you otherwise wouldn't have because you feel sorry for the other guy is "collusion" or not, but at the end of the day it's nearly impossible to police the motivations of owners making trades.

People make trades for a host of reasons that might not be SOLELY because they think it'll make their team better. Some owners like to have their favorite players, even if they know more valuable players are available. Is that "collusion"? Under the yahoo definition it probably is. But if so, half the trades made are then potentially "collusive." Other owners like to catch rising stars and will trade a better guy for a hotter prospect, even though they expect the hot prospect might not pay off until the next year (and thus "hurt" his team for the time being). And yes, I'm sure there have been thousands of trades in thousands of leagues where "feeling sorry" was the motivation at least in part.

IMO, trades should only be vetoed when they are ridiculously lopsided and where there is evidence of REAL collusion, such as a secret payoff or some other extra-league consideration. Needless to say, those circumstances are incredibly rare.
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Postby stevelabny » Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:59 am

why is the answer of "i felt sorry for him" being taken at face value?

isnt it possible that he thinks hes getting the better end of the deal?(doesnt like Beltran in Shea, has a ton of steals himself and no 1B, loves Webb)

By giving a lame reason for the trade he

1> covers his pride if it backfires

2> plays stupid that he really wanted Thome all along, so that the other owner won't back out or ask for more.

3> acts like he's doing the other owner a favor, which might be repaid in the future.
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