The new NL pitchers are great value. - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

The new NL pitchers are great value.

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Postby AKhomebrewer » Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:22 am

Apparently you Southern-Hemisphere boys see more clearly than I have ... 9 of my 11 offensive players in my H2H are on NL clubs, and I've had a few hideous weeks. I keep looking up to see Peavy, Pedro, Pettitte, Clemens, etc. on the hill.
I may consciously shoot for a little more balance next spring.
AKhomebrewer
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Cafeholic
Posts: 3240
Joined: 4 May 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Offshore

Postby RynMan » Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:26 am

AKhomebrewer wrote:Apparently you Southern-Hemisphere boys see more clearly than I have ...


That wouldn't explain you kicking my butt in the 16 team league tho. !+)
Image
RynMan
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerAward-Winning Graphics ExpertMock(ing) DrafterEagle Eye
Posts: 8891
Joined: 4 Feb 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Oztailia

Postby NZF » Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:46 am

RynMan wrote:
AKhomebrewer wrote:Apparently you Southern-Hemisphere boys see more clearly than I have ...


That wouldn't explain you kicking my butt in the 16 team league tho. !+)



He's giving us all a butt kicking. I managed to draw level for a day a few weeks back but since then my teams been in a freefall.

Hate to concede first with a month to go but AK has got us all on toast big time. He'd have to fall over to lose.
When you're right no one remembers, when you're wrong no one forgets - NZF
NZF
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Mock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 4795
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Sitting in the Cake Tin enjoying a cold Speights

Postby DK » Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:11 am

AKhomebrewer wrote:Apparently you Southern-Hemisphere boys see more clearly than I have ... 9 of my 11 offensive players in my H2H are on NL clubs, and I've had a few hideous weeks. I keep looking up to see Peavy, Pedro, Pettitte, Clemens, etc. on the hill.
I may consciously shoot for a little more balance next spring.


I think the the NL is marginally a better league than the AL (Save the NL West, which is an embarrassment to baseball). The top hitters in the NL are equal to the top hitters in the AL, the only difference is the R/G is lower due to the pitchers hitting in the NL.
Image
DK
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle Eye
Posts: 9533
Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: on deck

Postby NZF » Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:27 am

DK wrote:
I think the the NL is marginally a better league than the AL (Save the NL West, which is an embarrassment to baseball). The top hitters in the NL are equal to the top hitters in the AL, the only difference is the R/G is lower due to the pitchers hitting in the NL.


I disagree, the NL Central overall is weak as well. 4 of the 6 teams in that division are not playing .500 ball and those teams have only just got a winning record against the NL West.

And for the record the NL East division leader has a losing record this season against that embarrassment to baseball.

Also, when was the last time the NL beat the AL in the All Star game?
When you're right no one remembers, when you're wrong no one forgets - NZF
NZF
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Mock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 4795
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Sitting in the Cake Tin enjoying a cold Speights

Postby DK » Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:45 am

New Zealand Fan wrote:
DK wrote:
I think the the NL is marginally a better league than the AL (Save the NL West, which is an embarrassment to baseball). The top hitters in the NL are equal to the top hitters in the AL, the only difference is the R/G is lower due to the pitchers hitting in the NL.


I disagree, the NL Central overall is weak as well. 4 of the 6 teams in that division are not playing .500 ball and those teams have only just got a winning record against the NL West.

And for the record the NL East division leader has a losing record this season against that embarrassment to baseball.

Also, when was the last time the NL beat the AL in the All Star game?


Ah, yes. The All-Star game. Because one game means everything. ;-7

It doesn't matter what the Braves record is against the NL West. What matters is that the entire NL West record is atrocious, period.

Aside from that... If you look at the top hitters in each league, I'd have to say that they're pretty comparable. Going from position to position:

C - Varitek alone pretty much wins this for the AL.
1B - Pujols and Lee. NL
2B - Give this one to the NL, and I'll tell you why. Soriano is the best second sacker in the majors for fantasy baseball but the fact that he gets on base at a 31.7% clip hurts his real-life value. Brian Roberts had a fluke first have and is coming back to earth. Polanco's one of the real gems here. Cantu's split time equally between second and third. Same with Figgins, but add in OF too. Iguchi is solid but not spectacular. After that there's nobody special. The NL has Kent, Utley, Giles, Biggio, Hall, Durham, Castillo,Counsell, and Loretta when healthy.
3B - Did I hear someone say AL MVP? ;-7 The problem with that is that while the AL has A-Rod, the NL has Ensberg, Wright, A-Ram, and Glaus. The edge goes to the AL, but it's almost even.
SS - Tejada and Young. AL
LF - Tough call. If Bonds were still around I'd say no contest, but I'm going to take the NL here anyway. The AL has the best one player (Man Ram) but the NL has Miggy, JayBay, Dunn, C. Lee, Floyd, Burrell, Guillen... etc.
CF - Beltran when healthy is the cream of the crop. Even without him, the NL has the advantage with Andruw and Griffey stacking up against Damon and Sizemore.
RF - It's Sheff vs. Abreu, and then Vlad impales everyone. Edge to the AL.

SP - I think it's safe to say the NL dominates here. Clemens, Carpenter, Pedro, Peavy, 'Trelle, Oswalt, Smoltz, Zambrano, Pettitte, Burnett, John Patterson, etc.
RP - I don't know much about middle relievers but at a quick rough glance 15 out of the top 25 holdsmen are from the NL. They usually don't face a pitcher, either.
CP - I call this one even.

So, by that count, we have the NL winning six rounds, the AL winning four rounds, and one round being called even. Gotta say the NL is a stronger league, IMO.
Image
DK
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle Eye
Posts: 9533
Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: on deck

Postby NZF » Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:35 am

You've obviously gone to a lot of trouble but you've wasted your time. It's irrelevant to use players numbers to compare the relative strengths of the leagues.

For a start the NL hitters face the NL pitchers and vice versa. So you're achieving very little by doing this.

In fact going by your theory and using the old adage that good pitching will always beat good hitting, the AL must be stronger.

You disregard the All Star game but it is one of the few true measures of the respective league strengths and the AL win it year after year.

You also have no answer for the fact that half the teams in the NL have losing records and two-thirds do in a division you recognise as one of the best.

Another measurable area of the relative league strengths are the Inter- league games. Now if you came back to me with evidence to say the NL won the majority of these this season then I might give your argument some credibility.
When you're right no one remembers, when you're wrong no one forgets - NZF
NZF
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Mock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 4795
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Sitting in the Cake Tin enjoying a cold Speights

Postby mamorris » Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:19 am

New Zealand Fan wrote:Another measurable area of the relative league strengths are the Inter- league games. Now if you came back to me with evidence to say the NL won the majority of these this season then I might give your argument some credibility.


From memory, the AL won 132 games to the NL's 112. It's possible these aren't the exact numbers, but I do remember the AL being 20 games above .500 in those matchups.
mamorris
College Coach
College Coach


Posts: 299
Joined: 8 Feb 2005
Home Cafe: Basketball

Postby Pogotheostrich » Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:20 am

Here are the win totals since interleague started.

    YEAR AL NL
    1997 97 117
    1998 114 110
    1999 116 135
    2000 136 115
    2001 132 120
    2002 123 129
    2003 115 137
    2004 126 125
    2005 136 116


This year the AL dominated.
Historically it is pretty even the the AL winning 1095 total games and the NL winning 1104.
Image
Pogotheostrich
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 21623
(Past Year: 337)
Joined: 9 Dec 2002
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: St. Louis

Postby DK » Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:34 pm

New Zealand Fan wrote:You've obviously gone to a lot of trouble but you've wasted your time. It's irrelevant to use players numbers to compare the relative strengths of the leagues.


Where did I use players numbers? The only numbers I used were holds, and perhaps Soriano's OBP (which is atrocious). If you want to use players numbers, we could, I suppose... OPS+ and ERA+, although I don't know where to get OPS+ mid-season.

New Zealand Fan wrote:For a start the NL hitters face the NL pitchers and vice versa. So you're achieving very little by doing this.


... First of all, using "vice versa" there is superfluous. But regardless... So? You're acheiving even less by telling me this.


New Zealand Fan wrote:In fact going by your theory and using the old adage that good pitching will always beat good hitting, the AL must be stronger.


What? I'm not following you here. Explain.


New Zealand Fan wrote:You disregard the All Star game but it is one of the few true measures of the respective league strengths and the AL win it year after year.


And again, it's only one game. The Devil Rays beat the Yankees at least once every year since their existence. If it was, say, a seven-game series every year, I'd give it some credit. But anything can happen in one game.


New Zealand Fan wrote:You also have no answer for the fact that half the teams in the NL have losing records and two-thirds do in a division you recognise as one of the best.


Take out the NL West, remember that. The AL is better than the NL if you leave them in. It's true that 4 teams in the NL Central have losing records but you have to see past that first glance. The Cubs have had a depleted team all year. The Brewers are closer to .500 then they've been in 10 years. Pitt is garbage, and Cincy's pitchers are garbage, although they've got a pretty good offense (when Freel is healthy).


New Zealand Fan wrote:Another measurable area of the relative league strengths are the Inter- league games. Now if you came back to me with evidence to say the NL won the majority of these this season then I might give your argument some credibility.


The AL won the inter-league games by 20. Again, I expected that; that includes the NL West. Doing a bit of research, the NL West was 32-55 in interleague games, or 23 games under .500. Take out those games and the leagues were about even, with the NL having a slight advantage.
Image
DK
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle Eye
Posts: 9533
Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: on deck

PreviousNext

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Saturday, Oct. 25
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Kansas City at San Francisco
(8:07 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact