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The Most Underrated player in baseball is....

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Postby AcidRock23 » Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:18 pm

I like Beltre and Ichiro just fine and think that they will come close to what they did last year w/ a stronger lineup in Seattle and Beltre wanting to prove himself. I was waiting for Beltre to collapse the whole year last year, after watching him hobble down the line w/ ankle issues vs. the Cubs so, in addition to the bat, I will go ahead and give him intangible gamer points and overlook the seasons prior to last year. I can't imagine seriously taking Nomar before him although, as a Cubs fan, I certainly hope Nomar goes nuts and outperforms him.

I like Brad Wilkerson to be a usefully underrated player, whose average is likely to improve w/o the disorienting dynamics the Expos played through the last couple of years. Not a total bargain but available after the main body of OF b/c of the low average, can fill in at 1B too and should jack 30ish HR and pick up some SB to boot. If you snag him, you can take flyers on other bargains (eg. Sexson) and other guys w/ potential and question marks and not have to get stuck w/ OverbayCaliberGuys in a slugging position on your roster. Win/Win to me. ;-D
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Postby curious_george_43545 » Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:19 pm

Beltre, Mora, Julio Lugo, Todd Helton, Bobby Abreu, Aramis Ramirez, Polanco, Hideki Matsui, Ramon Hernandez, Troy Glaus, Coco Crisp, Oliver Perez, and others are all underrated

As for Beltre only having one good year, this is simply untrue. Last year's numbers warrant a mid first round pick, and he would of reached those numbers sooner if it wasn't for injuries and things early in his career. Adrian’s 2001 season which many believed would be his breakout year was pratically lost by a botched appendectomy performed in the Dominican Republic which led to needing a second surgery. It was mid-May before he saw any playing time and even then he wasn't healthy. In 2002 and 2003 he managed to get a lot of playing time, but Adrian was still delevoping and not quite healthy and while improving and putting up good numbers hadn't reached his potential. In his injured 2001 season he managed to hit 13 homers and then 20+ the next two years showed he had the power just couldn't get his average up. In 2004 when he was finally healthy, had been in the majors for a while now, and developed into the hitter he really is he had a "breakout year" which he builded upon his power he already had shown, but more impressively finished with a .330+ average finally showing some plate discipline and the ability to hit for average along with power. It's unfair to say that this was his first great year and that he'll regress back to where he was, since where he was, was a still developing very young inpatient unhealthy hitter. Not to mention he'll be in a solid lineup in the AL this year.
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Postby Bloody Nipples » Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:32 pm

Transmogrifier wrote:
Bloody Nipples wrote:Jaret Wright, Shawn Green, Sean Casey, Carlos Lee, Hideki Matsui


Under what possible system is a pitcher who has pitched one good year and is switching to the AL--the AL East!!!--underrated?


I agree, he wont be as good as he was last year. People who dont know baseball as well as we all do will overrate him. However, there is a backlash effect here at the cafe. Many people here will not touch him at all, even if he falls to the 20th round or so. In the Funky 14, he fell to around the 300th overall pick. He will be much more valuable than that pick, so therefore he is underrated. By being dubbed constantly as "overrated," he has become underrated at the cafe.
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Postby curious_george_43545 » Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:35 pm

Bloody Nipples wrote:
Transmogrifier wrote:
Bloody Nipples wrote:Jaret Wright, Shawn Green, Sean Casey, Carlos Lee, Hideki Matsui


Under what possible system is a pitcher who has pitched one good year and is switching to the AL--the AL East!!!--underrated?


I agree, he wont be as good as he was last year. People who dont know baseball as well as we all do will overrate him. However, there is a backlash effect here at the cafe. Many people here will not touch him at all, even if he falls to the 20th round or so. In the Funky 14, he fell to around the 300th overall pick. He will be much more valuable than that pick, so therefore he is underrated. By being dubbed constantly as "overrated," he has become underrated at the cafe.
good point ;-D
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Postby The Jury » Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:39 pm

MLB-wise, I think Barry is still a bit underrated :-o

In some sports, there's a guy who *bleeps* it up by being too good!! :-D

Basketball: SHAQ
Football: Peyton
Hockey: Wayne, and Mario in his prime (~200 points in a season!)
Golf: Tigger
Tennis: Anna Kournikova

Baseball: Bonds. Barry Bonds.

:-D
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:44 pm

The Miner Part 2 wrote:well if you guys really believe this guy is that great youd be drafting him according to his numbers from last year, which would put him in the 4th to 7th overall pick. im not saying hes a complete bust from last years numbers but im still saying you draft him around the end of the second to the begining of the third rounds.


Isnt that the point - to draft or acquire the most valuable players for the lowest cost? I already said Id take him top 12-13.
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Postby Conner » Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:54 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:
Transmogrifier wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:
The Miner Part 2 wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:Rowand, Chavez and Carlos Lee are all overrated players.

Ichiro, Beltre and, come to think of it, most of the Mariners lineup does not get the respect that it deserves.


yea the guy who leads baseball in all-star game voting every year, wins the mvp as a rookie and sets the all-time hits in a season record is definetly underated.


I don't know if you are trying to be funny but the question was directed to fantasy baseball. I have seen a lot of rankings and drafts where Ichiro does not get taken in the first round.


This is because Ichiro is a not a first rounder, Mook. He's not worth it. He won't hit .370 again, that's for sure. I think he's overrated.


Ohh Trans, no you too.

This is how Ichiro gets underrated.

In a points league Ichiro may lose some value but in what universe is Ichiro not a first rounder in roto?

The highest BA with the most AB, great steals, will lead the league this year in runs scored. He will be a top 3 hitter this year.


It's silly to proclaim Ichiro as having the "highest batting average" this year.

Last year, he hit .315 in the first half. In the second half, he hit .423.

So, I guess you'd say..."Well that shows you how great he is".

Not really.

In the second half of last year, 46% of every ball he put in play ended up being a hit. That's an incredible amount of luck. The league average is 30%.

I suppose you'll say..."Well, he's fast, so that's why he can get more hits on infielders bobbling balls and whatnot".

Not really.

In the first have, 34% of his balls in play ended in a hits, and in 2003, 33%. The 46% in the second half last year was simply an incredible amount of luck, which is incredibly unlikely to happen again. Carl Crawford's percentages (just for comparison to another speedy guy) have been 33%, 33%, and 33% in his 3 seasons with the Devil Rays. It's usually a pretty darn consistent stat.

Ichiro is about a .300 hitter. Not much more....Don't let his 2004 second half fool you.
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Postby nikku88 » Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:22 am

Conner wrote:Ichiro is about a .300 hitter. Not much more....Don't let his 2004 second half fool you.


Then why is his career AVG .350 in Japan and .339 in MLB?
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Postby Conner » Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:27 am

nikku88 wrote:
Conner wrote:Ichiro is about a .300 hitter. Not much more....Don't let his 2004 second half fool you.


Then why is his career AVG .350 in Japan and .339 in MLB?


First of all....I meant to say .310, not .300.

Either way...his Japan numbers are obviously a bit inflated...and like I said, his second half last year severley skewed his overall stats. He hit .315 in the first half, and hit .312 and .320 in the previous two seasons.
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Postby The Jury » Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:28 am

Conner wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:
Transmogrifier wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:
The Miner Part 2 wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:Rowand, Chavez and Carlos Lee are all overrated players.

Ichiro, Beltre and, come to think of it, most of the Mariners lineup does not get the respect that it deserves.


yea the guy who leads baseball in all-star game voting every year, wins the mvp as a rookie and sets the all-time hits in a season record is definetly underated.


I don't know if you are trying to be funny but the question was directed to fantasy baseball. I have seen a lot of rankings and drafts where Ichiro does not get taken in the first round.


This is because Ichiro is a not a first rounder, Mook. He's not worth it. He won't hit .370 again, that's for sure. I think he's overrated.


Ohh Trans, no you too.

This is how Ichiro gets underrated.

In a points league Ichiro may lose some value but in what universe is Ichiro not a first rounder in roto?

The highest BA with the most AB, great steals, will lead the league this year in runs scored. He will be a top 3 hitter this year.


It's silly to proclaim Ichiro as having the "highest batting average" this year.

Last year, he hit .315 in the first half. In the second half, he hit .423.

So, I guess you'd say..."Well that shows you how great he is".

Not really.

In the second half of last year, 46% of every ball he put in play ended up being a hit. That's an incredible amount of luck. The league average is 30%.

I suppose you'll say..."Well, he's fast, so that's why he can get more hits on infielders bobbling balls and whatnot".

Not really.

In the first have, 34% of his balls in play ended in a hits, and in 2003, 33%. The 46% in the second half last year was simply an incredible amount of luck, which is incredibly unlikely to happen again. Carl Crawford's percentages (just for comparison to another speedy guy) have been 33%, 33%, and 33% in his 3 seasons with the Devil Rays. It's usually a pretty darn consistent stat.

Ichiro is about a .300 hitter. Not much more....Don't let his 2004 second half fool you.


With respect, I disagree with you. Ichiro is definitely better than a .300 hitter.

While your provided numbers are acceptable and show that likely have done some research and are not just blabbering off the top of your head, I do not agree that they support your case to much of an extent.

Ichiro makes a career of making the best possible contact that he can on the pitches that the swings at.

Maybe a better stat if you can acquire it is the "% of balls put in play that result in hits" for career .300 hitters. I would expect that value to be significantly higher than the 30% of the MLB universe, and luck would likely be only a small factor.
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