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Why Bonderman?

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Postby slomo007 » Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:47 pm

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I think you were looking at hits, not ERs. He wasn't that bad, considering it was the toughest park in the majors last year.
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Postby slomo007 » Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:49 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:
slomo007 wrote:Since when are away games at Cleveland, Chicago, and Baltimore easy?

Holding those teams below 4 ERs is a decent accomplishment to be honest....particularly the White Sox, at US Cellular.


The game in Chicago he actually gave up 6 runs in 6 IP. He was good against them in Detroit.

The only away games where he was any good were the 2 against Tampa Bay. He just plowed through MArtinez, Cummings, Cruz, Cabtu and Fordyce :-b


Mookie, Bonderman sleep with your wife or something? I'm sensing some anti-Bonderman bias.
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Postby GameOn » Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:10 pm

In yahoo drafts I consistently see Bonderman and Grienke being picked before all of the following pitchers:
Freddy Garcia
Odalis Perez
Brad Radke
Bartolo Colon
C.C. Sabathia
Livan Hernandez
Mark Buehrle
Brandon Webb
Brad Penny
Kevin Brown
Matt Morris
Jeff Weaver
Randy Wolf
Joel Pineiro

It may just be me but I would take ALL of those pitcher over Bonderman or Grienke...and I am sure that most of the cafe regulars would take at least half of them over Bonderman. Yahoo just has Bonderman and Grienke rated so high and Yahoo has plenty of idiotic owners who do not have a clue about baseball who will draft them over a Freddy Garcia or Bartolo Colon.
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:44 pm

GameOn wrote:In yahoo drafts I consistently see Bonderman and Grienke being picked before all of the following pitchers:
Freddy Garcia
Odalis Perez
Brad Radke
Bartolo Colon
C.C. Sabathia
Livan Hernandez
Mark Buehrle
Brandon Webb
Brad Penny
Kevin Brown
Matt Morris
Jeff Weaver
Randy Wolf

Joel Pineiro

It may just be me but I would take ALL of those pitcher over Bonderman or Grienke...and I am sure that most of the cafe regulars would take at least half of them over Bonderman. Yahoo just has Bonderman and Grienke rated so high and Yahoo has plenty of idiotic owners who do not have a clue about baseball who will draft them over a Freddy Garcia or Bartolo Colon.


I would rank Bondo and Greinke ahead of the players in Violet. Thats just me though, some of the guys are very close.
Last edited by Cornbread Maxwell on Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby LBJackal » Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:45 pm

I'm with Mook here, everybody is going overboard with Bonderman. The whole world thinks he's a sleeper, which just makes him over-rated as everybody tries to grab this "sleeper" before somebody else can.

Yeah he had a great game against the Sox at spacious Comerica, but 5 days earlier he'd given up 6 ER in 3+ IP against the same team in US Cellular.

Other than his games against TB, KC, and CWS at home, he wasn't that good in the second half at all. 3 good games. 2 of them against a couple of the crappiest teams in baseball. I understand he has good upside but I'll let other people spend high picks on him this year.

EDIT: He also had a good game against the Angels. Doesn't change my mind though :-D
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Postby ramble2 » Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:19 pm

I'm a bit pressed for time, so can't really make the case, but thought I'd put it on record that I'm on the Bonderman band wagon. He does seem to be going earlier than is probably warranted. However, when I draft I don't mind taking guys I really want a bit earlier than I think they should go. (Better than taking a player everyone else THINKS should go earlier and losing out on the players you want because they get taken in the 'right' round.)

Am I sure he'll bust out this year? No. Do I think he's a strong candidate for a breakout year? Absolutely. And in my keeper league I want in on that action before it happens, rather than to be on the sidelines.

Strong second half indicators, good base-line sabermatic numbers, nice Baseball Prospectus write up. Yup, he's one I want.

Mookie and LB, I can't remember where each of you stood on Loaiza last year. I think LB was on board the Loaiza wagon. I was most definitely not. Mookie I can't remember. I think Bonderman could be the anti-Loaiza here. You guys up for a bet? Here are the terms I propose:

Choose one to bet on:

A. Bonderman in 2005 outperforms Loaiza 2004;
B. Bonderman in 2005 outperforms Loaiza 2005 (not much of a bet, really, but hey, if you want to take it).

Loser has to change their avatar next off-season. If I lose, I get a Loaiza avatar. If you lose, you get a Bonderman avatar. Game?
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Postby slomo007 » Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:22 pm

ramble2 wrote:I'm a bit pressed for time, so can't really make the case, but thought I'd put it on record that I'm on the Bonderman band wagon. He does seem to be going earlier than is probably warranted. However, when I draft I don't mind taking guys I really want a bit earlier than I think they should go. (Better than taking a player everyone else THINKS should go earlier and losing out on the players you want because they get taken in the 'right' round.)

Am I sure he'll bust out this year? No. Do I think he's a strong candidate for a breakout year? Absolutely. And in my keeper league I want in on that action before it happens, rather than to be on the sidelines.

Strong second half indicators, good base-line sabermatic numbers, nice Baseball Prospectus write up. Yup, he's one I want.

Mookie and LB, I can't remember where each of you stood on Loaiza last year. I think LB was on board the Loaiza wagon. I was most definitely not. Mookie I can't remember. I think Bonderman could be the anti-Loaiza here. You guys up for a bet? Here are the terms I propose:

Choose one to bet on:

A. Bonderman in 2005 outperforms Loaiza 2004;
B. Bonderman in 2005 outperforms Loaiza 2005 (not much of a bet, really, but hey, if you want to take it).

Loser has to change their avatar next off-season. If I lose, I get a Loaiza avatar. If you lose, you get a Bonderman avatar. Game?


I like your style ramble, I'm interested to see if one of them steps up.
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Postby looptid » Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:23 pm

Bonderman's success in the second half and in particular his success in September did stem from directives from the coaching staff (pitching coach and manager) to go out, relax, and trust his stuff more, so if there is a demonstrable cause behind his run of good pitching, it's a little more encouraging that just a hot streak.
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Postby yellowdog » Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:27 pm

My situation is a bit different, than most. I am in an 11 team, keep 6, total points league, where I will be keeping Santana, Clemens, Wood, and Smoltz. As discussed in other threads, starting piching is very important in most points league configurations. With guys like Clemens, Smoltz, and even Wood (injury risk) as my piching nucleus, I feel relatively safe this year, but must work on getting younger. I will obviously have to work on my offense in the early rounds with only Abreu as an offensive keeper, but if Bonderman is there in the 12th (1st 6 rounds are keepers), I may have to pull the trigger. I would be thrilled to have his potential on my bench, with some spot starts here and there to reach my maximum innings limit.
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Postby Mookie4ever » Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:30 pm

ramble2 wrote:I'm a bit pressed for time, so can't really make the case, but thought I'd put it on record that I'm on the Bonderman band wagon. He does seem to be going earlier than is probably warranted. However, when I draft I don't mind taking guys I really want a bit earlier than I think they should go. (Better than taking a player everyone else THINKS should go earlier and losing out on the players you want because they get taken in the 'right' round.)

Am I sure he'll bust out this year? No. Do I think he's a strong candidate for a breakout year? Absolutely. And in my keeper league I want in on that action before it happens, rather than to be on the sidelines.

Strong second half indicators, good base-line sabermatic numbers, nice Baseball Prospectus write up. Yup, he's one I want.

Mookie and LB, I can't remember where each of you stood on Loaiza last year. I think LB was on board the Loaiza wagon. I was most definitely not. Mookie I can't remember. I think Bonderman could be the anti-Loaiza here. You guys up for a bet? Here are the terms I propose:

Choose one to bet on:

A. Bonderman in 2005 outperforms Loaiza 2004;
B. Bonderman in 2005 outperforms Loaiza 2005 (not much of a bet, really, but hey, if you want to take it).

Loser has to change their avatar next off-season. If I lose, I get a Loaiza avatar. If you lose, you get a Bonderman avatar. Game?


First of all - why did you put a link to Amazon.com in your post :-b

Second, not a huge Loaiza guy. My post was about him being taken before some guys that I'm sure will outperform him. I mentioned Radke in my original post. Take for example the Cafe Challenge slow draft that's going on right now.

Bonderman 10th round
Odalis Perez 12th round
Brad Radke 13th round

I would take the bet if I got to pick Radke or Perez.

Even though I'm around here a lot more than you and your humiliation will not be as severe I will still take the bet.

Bonderman outperforms Radke (5x5 standard roto post 2005 dollar value) and I will wear a Bonderman avatar for (the offseason, a year? 1,000 posts? whatever). Radke outperforms Bonderman and you wear a Canadian flag avatar for your next 1,000 posts.

deal?
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