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Postby acsguitar » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:16 pm

wrveres wrote:what did bleach just say? :-)


Geez I had to double take I figured that was you saying that to me.

thanks bleach...
I'm too lazy to make a sig at the moment
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Re: Im a steroids expert

Postby thedude » Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:17 am

ttwarrior1 wrote:Schilling took roids with the rest of the 93 phillies, just like john kruk.

Some guys get defensive and blame others so they dont get blamed themselves


Cough...McCarthy...


Just FYI steriods only work if you actually work out. I think if you have ever looked at David Wells (or Curt Schilling for that matter) you can kinda tell that they are hardly Gymrats.

Saying that all baseball players use steriods, is like saying all college students use drugs. Some do, some don't.
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Re: Im a steroids expert

Postby klvrdude » Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:40 am

thedude wrote:
ttwarrior1 wrote:Schilling took roids with the rest of the 93 phillies, just like john kruk.

Some guys get defensive and blame others so they dont get blamed themselves


Cough...McCarthy...


Just FYI steriods only work if you actually work out. I think if you have ever looked at David Wells (or Curt Schilling for that matter) you can kinda tell that they are hardly Gymrats.

Saying that all baseball players use steriods, is like saying all college students use drugs. Some do, some don't.


Ummm, all college kids do use drugs...why else would you go???

And I think some pitchers use steriods not just for gaining muscle. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe steriods work by speeding up the muscular healing process (thus creating newer and bigger muscle), therefore a pitcher could recover faster from their last apperance. Say for instance, completely hypothetical of course, when Gagne pitches 3-4 days in a row he can go out a 5th day if he needs to b/c his arm still has some life in it while an undoped person's may not.[/b]
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Re: Im a steroids expert

Postby Krunk City King$ » Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:13 pm

thedude wrote:
ttwarrior1 wrote:Schilling took roids with the rest of the 93 phillies, just like john kruk.

Some guys get defensive and blame others so they dont get blamed themselves


Cough...McCarthy...


Just FYI steriods only work if you actually work out.


ImageImage

Canseco book takes swing at Clemens

By MICHAEL O'KEEFFE and T.J. QUINN
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITERS

Jose Canseco's stick-and-tell memoir continued to shock the baseball world today with revelations that implicate Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa and several journeymen players, as steroid users.
The book hit bookstores today and is the subject of a "60 Minutes" segment that will be broadcast on Sunday.

Canseco says in his book that he has no direct knowledge of steroid use by those players, and he isn't as brazen when accusing them as he is in describing the alleged steroid use of Mark McGwire, Jason Giambi, Ivan Rodriguez, Rafael Palmeiro and Juan Gonzalez, which the Daily News first reported Sunday. But he points a meaty finger at the game's biggest names in "Juiced: Wild Times, Rampant 'Roids, Smash Hits, and How Baseball Got Big." He also claims that George W. Bush, as general managing partner of the Texas Rangers in the early '90s, had to be aware of steroid use on his team.

Of Clemens, a seven-time Cy Young winner who has always denied using illegal performance enhancers, Canseco never says he knows for sure that the Rocket shot up. Canseco writes, "I've never seen Roger Clemens do steroids, and he never told me that he did."

But he then goes on for two pages about how Clemens said he used the term "B-12 shots" - clubhouse code for steroids, Canseco says - with respect to other players. He then says how he remembers "thinking" that Clemens showed "classic signs" of steroid use, like sudden improvement late in a career.

Randy Hendricks, one of Clemens' agents, responded angrily today, telling the Daily News: "Neither Roger nor I have seen the book, but any such suggestion is absurd on its face. It's a wonder Canseco didn't name the Pope, given he named President Bush. Roger has not taken any illegal drugs or substances. He has passed all tests and will continue to do so in 2005. In 2004, with stricter testing, he passed the tests and won a record 7th Cy Young Award."

Canseco is as vague when discussing Sosa as he is with Clemens, again saying that he has no first-hand knowledge that he was juicing.

"I don't know Sammy Sosa personally," he writes, "so I can't say for a fact that he ever took steroids."

But again, he writes, he remembers "thinking" that Sosa's body changed more dramatically that McGwire's did before the home run summer of 1998.

"It seemed so obvious, it was a joke," Canseco writes.

"No comment," Sosa agent Adam Katz said.

About Bonds, Canseco says flat-out, "the simple fact is Barry Bonds was definitely using steroids." But he also cites Bonds' testimony before the BALCO grand jury, which was overheard by the Daily News and later revealed in the San Francisco Chronicle, as proof.

About Baltimore Oriole Miguel Tejada, the 2002 AL MVP and a former Oakland teammate of Canseco's, Canseco writes, "I started giving him advice about steroids, and he seemed interested in what I was saying." Canseco says he "can't say for sure" that Tejada cheated, but then writes that he would have been justified in doing so.

He also says that Seattle's Bret Boone, who grew noticeably bigger before the 2001 season, hinted that he was using steroids. Once again, Canseco doesn't use the "S" word, but says when he asked Boone what he had been doing, Boone said "Shhh, Don't tell anybody," and Canseco took that to mean he was "part of the club."

He also says he injected pitcher Wilson Alvarez and outfielder Dave Martinez when they were teammates in Tampa. He says that Tampa pitcher Tony Saunders, who famously broke his arm while pitching in a game, abused steroids.

Clemens spoke to the Daily News about steroids and related subjects in June, denying at the time he had done anything illegal to develop his physique.

Many players have wondered how he remains able to touch 98 on a radar gun at his age, but Clemens said in June that he had no need to vindicate himself or explain his success.

"My motivation, my desire, how I treat people, the respect I have came a long time before I had anything to do with this game of baseball," he said in June. "My mother worked three jobs. She didn't take no for an answer."

Originally published on February 11, 2005

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/breaki ... 9878c.html
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Postby Krunk City King$ » Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:20 pm

Smizik: In sharp contrast to Bonds, Clemens avoids scrutiny
Sunday, May 15, 2005

By Bob Smizik, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

A strong body of evidence is slowly emerging that points to what so many have long believed: Barry Bonds is a steroid abuser.

Virtually no one is surprised because Bonds long has been under such suspicion. After all, he went from being a Hall-of-Fame caliber player to an all-time great, whose hitting prowess matched and often surpassed the likes of Babe Ruth and Ted Williams. Baseball fans and the media were skeptical of such accomplishments. It was believed such prodigious feats could not be achieved without chemical assistance.

No question, Bonds' deeds have been staggering.

In 2001, he hit 73 home runs to break Roger Maris' record, which had stood for 40 years. That same season, he had an .863 slugging percentage, which broke Ruth's record that had stood for 80 years.

In 2002, he had an on-base percentage of .582, which broke Williams' record that had stood for 60 years.

He had won three MVP awards, two with the Pirates, by the time he was 29. When he added what would be the first of four more when he was 37, doubts increased.

No one was that good.

Of course, it was more than the majesty of Bonds' achievements that raised suspicion. The size of his body also screamed steroids use.

Where he was once a sleek greyhound, he now bulged with muscles. He had gained at least 40 pounds.

Although there was not an iota of concrete evidence and was not against the rules of baseball at the time, Bonds was widely believed to be a cheater.

It all made sense, even to those -- including this column -- that had long defended Bonds.

So why aren't people saying the same thing about Roger Clemens? Why hasn't this bulked-up, overperforming baseball senior citizen received the same treatment as Bonds?

For sure, his accomplishments are equally astounding. In fact, the case could be made that the trajectory of Clemens' career should arouse more suspicion than Bonds'.

Unlike Bonds, whose career never faltered, Clemens had a four-year period, beginning when he was 30, when many people believed he was in decline. Included in that group were the Boston Red Sox, the team he played for during the first 13 years of his career. After the 1997 season, the Red Sox did not re-sign Clemens, who was eligible for free agency. It seemed like the right move.

After going 152-72 in his first nine seasons, Clemens was 40-39 from 1993-96. What's more, his winning percentage twice was below that of his team during that four-year stretch, something that had never happened in the previous nine seasons.

Also during the span, Clemens' earned run average twice was over 4.00, a level where it had never been before.

It was a clear picture of a player in decline. And why not? He was 34 when he finished the 1996 season with a 10-13 record on a team that was eight games over .500.


Except that he wasn't in decline. Not even close.

He signed with the Toronto Blue Jays in 1997 and, on a team that was 10 games under .500, he was 21-7. It was the first time he had won 20 games since 1990. His ERA of 2.05 was the second lowest of his career.

Once again, he was Superman. And, of course, it was all due to his incredible workout routine. There was never a word about chemical enhancement.

It's not like Clemens was some kind of media favorite. Like Bonds, he has a history of being a major jerk.

Clemens is 42 and pitching as well or better than ever.

Last year, he was 18-4 with the Houston Astros -- the third-best winning percentage of his career. He won his seventh Cy Young Award -- 18 seasons after he won his first.

Going into his scheduled start against the San Francisco Giants last night, he was averaging better than a strikeout an inning and his ERA was a ridiculous 1.10.

In his tell-all book, "Juiced; Wild Times, Rampant 'Roids, Smash Hits, and How Baseball Got Big," Jose Canseco wrote: "I've never seen Roger Clemens do steroids, and he never told me that he did. But we've talked about what steroids could do for you, in which combinations."

He also said Clemens showed "classic signs" of steroid use.

Clemens' agent, Randy Hendricks was furious. "He has passed all tests and will continue to do so in 2005."

The same tests Bonds passed.

There's never a word about Randy Johnson, who is 41, and steroids, but he might be the greatest overproducing baseball senior of them all. Bonds had offensive numbers that sometimes surpassed the great hitting masters. Johnson has strikeout totals that obliterate the performance of Nolan Ryan, the greatest strikeout pitcher of all time.

From ages 34 to 40 -- seven seasons -- Johnson had more than 300 strikeouts five times. He had 290 once.

When Ryan was between 34 and 40, he had no 300-strikeout seasons and only three 200-strikeout seasons.

Next to Johnson, Ryan is a junkballer.

But Johnson, too, is widely believed to be clean.

None of the above is to suggest I think Clemens and Johnson are steroid abusers.

Of course, I didn't think Bonds was either.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05135/504781.stm
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Postby Yoda » Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:36 pm

Because everyone loves Clemens and hates Bonds.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
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Postby thedude » Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:58 pm

Krunk City King$ wrote:Smizik: In sharp contrast to Bonds, Clemens avoids scrutiny
Sunday, May 15, 2005

By Bob Smizik, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

A strong body of evidence is slowly emerging that points to what so many have long believed: Barry Bonds is a steroid abuser.

Virtually no one is surprised because Bonds long has been under such suspicion. After all, he went from being a Hall-of-Fame caliber player to an all-time great, whose hitting prowess matched and often surpassed the likes of Babe Ruth and Ted Williams. Baseball fans and the media were skeptical of such accomplishments. It was believed such prodigious feats could not be achieved without chemical assistance.

No question, Bonds' deeds have been staggering.

In 2001, he hit 73 home runs to break Roger Maris' record, which had stood for 40 years. That same season, he had an .863 slugging percentage, which broke Ruth's record that had stood for 80 years.

In 2002, he had an on-base percentage of .582, which broke Williams' record that had stood for 60 years.

He had won three MVP awards, two with the Pirates, by the time he was 29. When he added what would be the first of four more when he was 37, doubts increased.

No one was that good.

Of course, it was more than the majesty of Bonds' achievements that raised suspicion. The size of his body also screamed steroids use.

Where he was once a sleek greyhound, he now bulged with muscles. He had gained at least 40 pounds.

Although there was not an iota of concrete evidence and was not against the rules of baseball at the time, Bonds was widely believed to be a cheater.

It all made sense, even to those -- including this column -- that had long defended Bonds.

So why aren't people saying the same thing about Roger Clemens? Why hasn't this bulked-up, overperforming baseball senior citizen received the same treatment as Bonds?

For sure, his accomplishments are equally astounding. In fact, the case could be made that the trajectory of Clemens' career should arouse more suspicion than Bonds'.

Unlike Bonds, whose career never faltered, Clemens had a four-year period, beginning when he was 30, when many people believed he was in decline. Included in that group were the Boston Red Sox, the team he played for during the first 13 years of his career. After the 1997 season, the Red Sox did not re-sign Clemens, who was eligible for free agency. It seemed like the right move.

After going 152-72 in his first nine seasons, Clemens was 40-39 from 1993-96. What's more, his winning percentage twice was below that of his team during that four-year stretch, something that had never happened in the previous nine seasons.

Also during the span, Clemens' earned run average twice was over 4.00, a level where it had never been before.

It was a clear picture of a player in decline. And why not? He was 34 when he finished the 1996 season with a 10-13 record on a team that was eight games over .500.


Except that he wasn't in decline. Not even close.

He signed with the Toronto Blue Jays in 1997 and, on a team that was 10 games under .500, he was 21-7. It was the first time he had won 20 games since 1990. His ERA of 2.05 was the second lowest of his career.

Once again, he was Superman. And, of course, it was all due to his incredible workout routine. There was never a word about chemical enhancement.

It's not like Clemens was some kind of media favorite. Like Bonds, he has a history of being a major jerk.

Clemens is 42 and pitching as well or better than ever.

Last year, he was 18-4 with the Houston Astros -- the third-best winning percentage of his career. He won his seventh Cy Young Award -- 18 seasons after he won his first.

Going into his scheduled start against the San Francisco Giants last night, he was averaging better than a strikeout an inning and his ERA was a ridiculous 1.10.

In his tell-all book, "Juiced; Wild Times, Rampant 'Roids, Smash Hits, and How Baseball Got Big," Jose Canseco wrote: "I've never seen Roger Clemens do steroids, and he never told me that he did. But we've talked about what steroids could do for you, in which combinations."

He also said Clemens showed "classic signs" of steroid use.

Clemens' agent, Randy Hendricks was furious. "He has passed all tests and will continue to do so in 2005."

The same tests Bonds passed.

There's never a word about Randy Johnson, who is 41, and steroids, but he might be the greatest overproducing baseball senior of them all. Bonds had offensive numbers that sometimes surpassed the great hitting masters. Johnson has strikeout totals that obliterate the performance of Nolan Ryan, the greatest strikeout pitcher of all time.

From ages 34 to 40 -- seven seasons -- Johnson had more than 300 strikeouts five times. He had 290 once.

When Ryan was between 34 and 40, he had no 300-strikeout seasons and only three 200-strikeout seasons.

Next to Johnson, Ryan is a junkballer.

But Johnson, too, is widely believed to be clean.

None of the above is to suggest I think Clemens and Johnson are steroid abusers.

Of course, I didn't think Bonds was either.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05135/504781.stm



If you know anything about roger clemens, you would you why he was successful late in his career.

Steriods for pitchers help them gain velocity, something Roger always had. His stuff did not change the way Bonds gained homerun p[ower.

In the early to mid 1990s faced with a decling career Clemens began to devolp a new pitch in his repitor, the spliter.

While he was fooling around with the pitch, learning when and how to use it he post medicore numbers (besides as every smart baseball fan knows some very good pitchers have lousy records).

When he finally mastered the pitch he again became dominant.

If you ask any person with knowledge of the situation Roger Clemens did not gain velocity (which is how steriods help pitchers), but added a new pitch and became a smarter player.
"I do not think baseball of today is any better than it was 30 years ago... I still think Radbourne is the greatest of the pitchers." John Sullivan 1914-Old athletes never change.
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Postby Yoda » Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:23 pm

thedude wrote:
If you ask any person with knowledge of the situation Roger Clemens did not gain velocity (which is how steriods help pitchers), but added a new pitch and became a smarter player.


Now is this scientifically proven or just in your theory?[/b]
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Postby thedude » Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:14 pm

Yoda wrote:
thedude wrote:
If you ask any person with knowledge of the situation Roger Clemens did not gain velocity (which is how steriods help pitchers), but added a new pitch and became a smarter player.


Now is this scientifically proven or just in your theory?[/b]


Yeah steriods and HGH would really help that ball break harder. :-?
"I do not think baseball of today is any better than it was 30 years ago... I still think Radbourne is the greatest of the pitchers." John Sullivan 1914-Old athletes never change.
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Postby Yoda » Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:00 pm

thedude wrote:
Yoda wrote:
thedude wrote:
If you ask any person with knowledge of the situation Roger Clemens did not gain velocity (which is how steriods help pitchers), but added a new pitch and became a smarter player.


Now is this scientifically proven or just in your theory?[/b]


Yeah steriods and HGH would really help that ball break harder. :-?


So do you have a copy of a study on this issue or are you just making it up? Show us some proof that steroids and HGH increase velocity or makes ball break harder.
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