Presently, we are having a dilemma of sorts with our pitching stats. The way we have things now, a horrible starter is worth more than a closer. To the point that Huston Street is available as a FA, and Nelson Figueroa and Todd Wellemeyer are regular starters because they are presently starting pitchers but qualify as relievers. I don't care if middle-relief guys are entirely unused, but I would like the balance of power to be a bit better between starters/closers. Here are the stats we use:
Advice on categories to add/delete, as well as adjusted points would be awesome. If someone has a league that is set up similarly that they really like, those rules would be appreciated as well.
Here's what we do: IP 2 points. Save 8 points. Eliminate the 15 point bonus for a shutout. He'll already get ridiculous points for the game and the 5 point bonus for the CG. -.5 points for hits allowed -.5 points for walks.
With this setup, good starters and good closers are valuable. Crappy starters get hurt by the negatives.
BigMusky wrote:the standard CBS scoring works pretty well and balances starters and closers...
BBI - Walks Issued (Pitchers) -0.5 points CG - Complete Games 5 points ER - Earned Runs -1 point HA - Hits Allowed -0.5 points INN - Innings 2 points K - Strikeouts (Pitcher) 1 point S - Saves 10 points W - Wins 10 points
10 point saves are way too much, IMO. A great starter gets 20 wins, and a great closer can get near 50. In that setup, closers are overvalued and dominate the leaderboard. Saves need to be knocked down a touch. We opted for 8 points, and it works well.
Sure, if you have a Gagne of LA like performance he will dominate...but so did AROD last year but you do not adjust the points because of statistical anomalies. Most elite closers land in the 35-40 range with 80K and that puts them right around 580pts which is an elite starter. Sure if you run into a guy who gets closer to the 50 save season he gets up near 650 pts...but that is still well below Peavy (20 W starter) who was around 700 pts. Remember a closer does not get the innings, k's that a starter does. So it all balances out. What you get is a lot of top tier closers in the top 30 of all pitchers...but considering saves are so hard to predict it is a fools game on draft day trying to use high picks on them and a closer is not going to give your team consistency because he will give you 5pts if he gets no saves but near 40 if he picks up three. I think it is a great balance.
All Pitchers 2007 MLB Standard Stats Player Team FPTS Peavy, Jake SP SD 695.2 Sabathia, C.C. SP CLE 677.5 Putz, J.J. RP SEA 649.3 Webb, Brandon SP ARI 647.2 Valverde, Jose RP HOU 631.7 Santana, Johan SP NYM 629.5 Harang, Aaron SP CIN 622.8 Lackey, John SP ANA 616.5 Beckett, Josh SP BOS 612.8 Rodriguez, Francisco RP ANA 611.7 Cordero, Francisco RP CIN 596.7 Borowski, Joe RP CLE 595.3 Vazquez, Javier SP CHW 592.8 Saito, Takashi RP LA 583.7 Nathan, Joe RP MIN 578.8 Haren, Dan SP ARI 576.8 Hoffman, Trevor RP SD 567.7 Jenks, Bobby RP CHW 567.0 Verlander, Justin SP DET 565.3 Carmona, Fausto SP CLE 564.0 Kazmir, Scott SP TB 559.8 Bedard, Erik SP SEA 557.0 Smoltz, John SP ATL 555.8 Zambrano, Carlos SP CHC 555.7 Halladay, Roy SP TOR 551.7 Escobar, Kelvim SP ANA 548.3 Papelbon, Jonathan RP BOS 546.2 Cordero, Chad RP WAS 532.0 Lilly, Ted SP CHC 532.0 Hamels, Cole SP PHI 531.7
11 out of top 30...I think that is the kind of distribution requested.
BigMusky wrote:Sure, if you have a Gagne of LA like performance he will dominate...but so did AROD last year but you do not adjust the points because of statistical anomalies. Most elite closers land in the 35-40 range with 80K and that puts them right around 580pts which is an elite starter. Sure if you run into a guy who gets closer to the 50 save season he gets up near 650 pts...but that is still well below Peavy (20 W starter) who was around 700 pts. Remember a closer does not get the innings, k's that a starter does. So it all balances out. What you get is a lot of top tier closers in the top 30 of all pitchers...but considering saves are so hard to predict it is a fools game on draft day trying to use high picks on them and a closer is not going to give your team consistency because he will give you 5pts if he gets no saves but near 40 if he picks up three. I think it is a great balance.
All Pitchers 2007 MLB Standard Stats Player Team FPTS Peavy, Jake SP SD 695.2 Sabathia, C.C. SP CLE 677.5 Putz, J.J. RP SEA 649.3 Webb, Brandon SP ARI 647.2 Valverde, Jose RP HOU 631.7 Santana, Johan SP NYM 629.5 Harang, Aaron SP CIN 622.8 Lackey, John SP ANA 616.5 Beckett, Josh SP BOS 612.8 Rodriguez, Francisco RP ANA 611.7 Cordero, Francisco RP CIN 596.7 Borowski, Joe RP CLE 595.3 Vazquez, Javier SP CHW 592.8 Saito, Takashi RP LA 583.7 Nathan, Joe RP MIN 578.8 Haren, Dan SP ARI 576.8 Hoffman, Trevor RP SD 567.7 Jenks, Bobby RP CHW 567.0 Verlander, Justin SP DET 565.3 Carmona, Fausto SP CLE 564.0 Kazmir, Scott SP TB 559.8 Bedard, Erik SP SEA 557.0 Smoltz, John SP ATL 555.8 Zambrano, Carlos SP CHC 555.7 Halladay, Roy SP TOR 551.7 Escobar, Kelvim SP ANA 548.3 Papelbon, Jonathan RP BOS 546.2 Cordero, Chad RP WAS 532.0 Lilly, Ted SP CHC 532.0 Hamels, Cole SP PHI 531.7
11 out of top 30...I think that is the kind of distribution requested.
I'm not saying you're wrong, BigMusky. It's all just preference after all. I prefer starters to be more valued but relievers to be useful. With 8 points last year, you end up with 15 out of the top 62 pitchers being closers (I went to 62 just because Rivera and Accardo were 61 and 62, it's 13 out of 60). But you only have one in the top 15 and 3 in the top 30.
With seven starting pitchers on everyone's roster, I like this distribution for a ten team league. A dominant closer with an historic season can still win the points title, but most of the time it will be an SP.
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by ksuim4u » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:19 pm 
